Sexing question - Apistos

[manamanaak]

Hi all. I purchased 2 Apistos yesterday from an LFS. I asked for a male and female. The employee didn't seemed phased and fished two fish out of the tank for me, no issues. I got them home and the more I look at them, the more concerned I might have gotten 2 males. My understanding is that the males are vibrant and the females are muddied/duller?  But looking at them, they seem similar in appearance and I just want a consensus on this. In the picture, the one I believe to be a male is on the left. It's about 20% larger, and the fins "spike" where in the other Apisto, they do not (see right fish in picture). Otherwise, they seem almost identical (at least close enough) for me to be concerned. Can anybody confirm from these pictures if I have a male and a female, or two males? Also, assuming I have a m/f pair, would adding another 1-2 females cause any concerns? This is a 40 gallon breeder community tank with room for at least another dozen smaller fish. Thanks!

[navyyardfish]

For sure the trailers that you see on the picture are a left are a giveaway.  If the tail on the right is rounded then it is most likely a female, though that's a lot of fin color for a female.   I've had some males though that took awhile to get the trailers and had a more yellow color, though this was in a tank with multiple other males.  Might just have to watch for a little.  I've had a 29 gallon with 2 females and a male that did just fine and had fry that I pulled.  A fun fish to watch raise their young.  

[SkaleyAquatics]

On 3/27/2022 at 3:21 PM, manamanaak said:

Hi all. I purchased 2 Apistos yesterday from an LFS. I asked for a male and female. The employee didn't seemed phased and fished two fish out of the tank for me, no issues. I got them home and the more I look at them, the more concerned I might have gotten 2 males. My understanding is that the males are vibrant and the females are muddied/duller?  But looking at them, they seem similar in appearance and I just want a consensus on this. In the picture, the one I believe to be a male is on the left. It's about 20% larger, and the fins "spike" where in the other Apisto, they do not (see right fish in picture). Otherwise, they seem almost identical (at least close enough) for me to be concerned. Can anybody confirm from these pictures if I have a male and a female, or two males? Also, assuming I have a m/f pair, would adding another 1-2 females cause any concerns? This is a 40 gallon breeder community tank with room for at least another dozen smaller fish. Thanks!

I think you have 2 males, but could be wrong, I have never seen a female  cacatuoides that has the orange in there fins. 

Depending on how the tank set up you could add another pair in general. 

[tolstoy21]

It is possible the one on the right is a male and will develop more typical male finnage and coloration over time.

However, I'm going with female. I've bred a lot of females that look just like the picture on the right.  For instance, compare yours to the one below (the dead giveaway below isn't color or finnage, but all her wee little babies!)

I've also had fish I thought were female that looked like yours and  later turned out to be subdominant 'sneaker' males, and didn't develop fully until separated out from the other more dominant males. But this doesn't happen a ton.

If you do have a female and she breeds with that male, you'll have some very nice looking offspring.

You'll just have to wait and see what happens.

Adding two more females in a 40 gallon should not be an issue. At least not until they spawn, then you'll just have to gage the aggression level of the new mother against the others.

Edited March 29, 2022 by tolstoy21

[tolstoy21]

On 3/27/2022 at 3:21 PM, manamanaak said:

My understanding is that the males are vibrant and the females are muddied/duller? 

The males will take on more grey/brown tones in the body. Males also tend to have blue in them, noticeable at various times, like in your picture above.

The females can be 'muddy' looking at times, but they're also more yellow over all, and get bright yellow when they are ready to spawn or have fry near.

As for fins, the males will have a very pronounced 'lyre-shaped' tail, whereas the female may have teeny tiny spikes where the males tail spikes are elongated. The ventral fins of the male will take on a more 'flame' pattern. This can also be seen in females, but (in my experience at least) they will have much more pronounced and solid black coloration in their ventral fins, and less of the fancy flame patterning.

The first spine on the dorsal fin of the male will be much more pronounced and elongated than in the females.

Of course, like I said in my other response. Those fin shapes and colors can be suppressed in sub-dominant males, and males can take on female coloration and looks when in the presence of other more dominant males.

Edited March 27, 2022 by tolstoy21

[Nate s]

I have no idea. I had a pair that breed 2 times in the first year. No more after and the female started getting aggressive and fins started growing and I took the male out and now she looks like a male (see above photo) The weirdest thing since I know there can be sneaker males but it’s clearly not a male since I have raised 2 sets of babies but it def has extended fins and trailers.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Nate s