Yikes! Live fry in shipment of dead fish... advice please!

[PineSong]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:33 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

So is my sporty male suitable for breeding? I had wondered if his little fiery tail markings weren't a bit more guppy-ish? 

I'm not an expert on Endler purity, I am only keeping P class so I would breed any Endler  liked the look of and would label the offspring P or K class if I was selling them so no pressure to follow a tight standard. Your guy is very good to look at so I would breed him without hesitation but as his tail is not the "classic" for chili's (or is it, I don't even know, it's just different than MY chili's!) I would just not say these are for sure pure.

https://martysfish.com/classifications-of-endlers-livebearers/

[Jawjagrrl]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:39 PM, Torrey said:

Yes, he has the traditional "split" tail that my local AS explained to me is the classic sign of Endlers... and warranted me bringing in 2 bags of fish to the Club Meeting for a positive ID... and for several club members to buy.

I'll see if I still have the link that explains all the identification and standards stuff, if you are interested?

So glad to hear, as I really like this little fella and I'm hoping to see more like him with the new females or the fun of what may develop. I love that it doesn't take months between generations. I love a good rabbithole, so send on that link, thank you! It sounds more fun than the sand/gravel adventure I was on earlier today...

On 4/7/2022 at 8:42 PM, PineSong said:

I'm not an expert on Endler purity, I am only keeping P class so I would breed any Endler  liked the look of and would label the offspring P or K class if I was selling them so no pressure to follow a tight standard. Your guy is very good to look at so I would breed him without hesitation but as his tail is not the "classic" for chili's (or is it, I don't even know, it's just different than MY chili's!) I would just not say these are for sure pure.

https://martysfish.com/classifications-of-endlers-livebearers/

thanks for the link - the ones I bought from the home hobbyist have the correct shape and a classic orange "fork". My male just adds a zig zag to those forks. Class P makes sense if I were ever to sell some though. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Jawjagrrl

[Torrey]

On 4/7/2022 at 5:52 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

I saw one fry before I actually removed water, so I did the water change from the back compartment... and had a shrimp in my bucket! I ended up having to pull everything out of that compartment to net three more half grown shrimp! I'm going to have to glue up some plastic window screen or some such over the filter holes. I found about 8 shrimplets a few weeks ago in the filter floss, so these three I got today have been there ever since.

This is interesting - I had a single chili male from an AH order last fall, wanted to breed him and found a hobbyist with them and the original post was about his first shipment that got delayed and only babies survived. the guy sent me a few more after it warmed up, and they are also chilis. The babies are most likely my male and one of the female he included with the replacement, although the babies are trying really hard to get her attention as well. They got the black first, then the red... but now they have added the green and present more like black bars. I guess that's part of the fun!

My bigger challenge is fry and shrimplets in the duckweed I remove every week - which I pulled out a ton of before realizing I had both in the tank today! I always strain the bucket water (hello, scuds!) but the duckweed often goes out to the chickens 😮 Maybe it needs to go into an empty tank first for a few days to make sure I don't lose anyone. But given I don't even know who made these shrimplets may suggest I needn't worry too much.

I accidentally fed quite a few to my turtle, the same way you may have fed a few to your chickens. More protein though, right?

Now, everything water goes throught the paint screen (much easier than my method last year, of a paper towel and wire mesh strainer!) and all plants removed from tanks spend the night in a bucket with an air stone ever since I found 8 fry int a plant bucket I wasn't able to throw out immediately because I had overdone it and had a flare.

two weeks later, 8 fry and a handful of snails were quite offended when I moved their bucket too quickly, and the 62 F water didn't bother them at all!😲 No food, no aeration, just 2 gallons worth of plants, cyanobacteria, green hair algae, fry and in a 5 gallon bucket snails.... I felt like the world's worst fish parent.

[Jawjagrrl]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:48 PM, Torrey said:

I accidentally fed quite a few to my turtle, the same way you may have fed a few to your chickens. More protein though, right?

Now, everything water goes throught the paint screen (much easier than my method last year, of a paper towel and wire mesh strainer!) and all plants removed from tanks spend the night in a bucket with an air stone ever since I found 8 fry int a plant bucket I wasn't able to throw out immediately because I had overdone it and had a flare.

two weeks later, 8 fry and a handful of snails were quite offended when I moved their bucket too quickly, and the 62 F water didn't bother them at all!😲 No food, no aeration, just 2 gallons worth of plants, cyanobacteria, green hair algae, fry and in a 5 gallon bucket snails.... I felt like the world's worst fish parent.

Sounds like the larger version of my little duckweed bucket that invariably includes snails and scuds that I keep in the kitchen window, so it often gets 60 or cooler. I should probably consider using a plastic tote and adding some aeration to it. But after seeing healthy shrimp today that have spent over a month in the filter compartment, I have more faith in how resilient they are. One was actually stuck to the filter floss and fell onto my phone that I had balanced on the tank lid to use the flashlight on it. I thought he was a goner since he didn't move, but when he hit the water he took off!

Might have to look for the paint screen this weekend as I suspect we'll be at a big box store for the 75 stand project. 

[Torrey]

On 4/7/2022 at 7:19 PM, Jawjagrrl said:

Sounds like the larger version of my little duckweed bucket that invariably includes snails and scuds that I keep in the kitchen window, so it often gets 60 or cooler. I should probably consider using a plastic tote and adding some aeration to it. But after seeing healthy shrimp today that have spent over a month in the filter compartment, I have more faith in how resilient they are. One was actually stuck to the filter floss and fell onto my phone that I had balanced on the tank lid to use the flashlight on it. I thought he was a goner since he didn't move, but when he hit the water he took off!

Might have to look for the paint screen this weekend as I suspect we'll be at a big box store for the 75 stand project. 

I was so happy when Cory shared the link for those silicone paint strainers!

I have 2, and they make sorting fish SO MUCH EASIER 

[Jawjagrrl]

Thought I'd share a little update. In the last 3 weeks another female (one of the original fry) had fry that I didn't know was pregnant - 5 or 6 hanging with the bigger kids. The females needed a break, so I temporarily moved them in with my holding tank of tetras. This worked great as the tetras stopped hiding!

And mama no 1 had a second set of babies, 3 weeks after the first batch the day after I moved them... close call. But not 5 or 6.... more like 13!

I kept counting and more kept appearing. They love the coop fry food and hang out for numerous mini feedings as time permits. The tetras are leaving them alone and the main tank isn't getting overwhelmed. Looks like I need a big grow out tank and some takers for endlers in the near future...

Edited May 3, 2022 by Jawjagrrl

[PineSong]

13 isn’t too bad! You have fun levels of fry:-) 

[Jawjagrrl]

On 5/2/2022 at 10:38 PM, PineSong said:

13 isn’t too bad! You have fun levels of fry:-) 

Glad that they don't have nearly as many babies as regular guppies.... given limited space ATM, 13 feels like 133!

[Jawjagrrl]

So Mama fish have made another move... this time to the new 55 until the other 55 can be cycled. The males are staying in their original tank and girls move as soon as I am sure of gender. While I was servicing the big tank, one of the other females in the tetra had babies.... they haven't been around males since May 1. How long can they hold reproductive material?

Tetras were getting overwhelmed so caught as many of both batches of fry to move in with the males. I managed *23* and at least 4 more are "at large"

Where to put all these babies?!? 

Edited May 17, 2022 by Jawjagrrl
Moar babez

[Jawjagrrl]

Nature does indeed find a way!

I had to revisit this thread after what I saw this morning. My breeding age female endlers have been away from males since May 1. They had fry on May 2 and again on May 16-17. I moved them into the 55gal then.

I was enjoying some early morning fish watching when I spotted this in the pogostemon:

SOMEBODY had babies last night? They haven't had access to "material" in 29 days - I didn't know they could store reproductive material that long, amazing.

There are quite a few considering there are a half dozen Congo tetras and 4 roseline sharks in this tank. The sharks prefer the bottom 1/3 of the setup, but one is starting to visit up top, which is how I spotted them.

Is there a topic anywhere about how NOT to breed endlers? 🤷‍♀️ But it is pretty cool to see that those surviving babies in a bag of dead adults that arrived in the mail when I first created this topic are successfully having their own babies in three different tanks and even with no males around for almost a month.

 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jawjagrrl

[PineSong]

I believe they can continue to produce fry for 6 to 8 months after their last contact with a male. So…. Yeah. Hard to not breed them. I will say that mine have not had ever increasing numbers after being away from males for months. I will see some new fry but not the jillions I had when the females had been with males 2 months ago. Whether that’s due to increased attrition now that I’ve removed some of the plants or actually producing fewer to start with I’m not sure but since the tanks are still heavily planted I think is the latter.

I’m glad your Brave little fry have survived to populate your corner of the world!

[Jawjagrrl]

On 5/29/2022 at 5:08 PM, PineSong said:

I believe they can continue to produce fry for 6 to 8 months after their last contact with a male. So…. Yeah. Hard to not breed them. I will say that mine have not had ever increasing numbers after being away from males for months. I will see some new fry but not the jillions I had when the females had been with males 2 months ago. Whether that’s due to increased attrition now that I’ve removed some of the plants or actually producing fewer to start with I’m not sure but since the tanks are still heavily planted I think is the latter.

I’m glad your Brave little fry have survived to populate your corner of the world!

It's pretty amazing! I think my husband is feeling a bit overwhelmed (he wanted to breed something). I told him to be glad they aren't guppies 😄