Strange Cichlid Problem

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

I recently bought a eureka red african peacock cichlid, but I discovered that he has issues swallowing his food. Even the soilent green repashy I tried has to be chewed for quite a while before he gets it down. He tries to eat the peewee cichlid Xtreme, but just ends up spitting it back out after several seconds. None of the other cichlids in quarantine with him are doing that. I looked in his mouth, but nothing was obviously wrong (though I haven't really done that with a healthy one, so I have no frame of reference.) Any ideas on what might be causing that and what I might do about it? I've been target-feeding him, but he's pretty slim. The quarantine is well cycled, 0 ammonia and nitrite, I got him last weekend, and it seems he had this problem before he came to me.

 

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[Fish Folk]

Have you tried frozen Spirulina Brine Shrimp? Take 1x cube, and thaw it out in a cup of warm water, and feed sparingly through a pipette, or similar. I use an over the counter Walmart liquid oral medicine syringe with a 4-inch piece of airline tubing attached. He'll need a diet that includes greens. We used to feed ours Omega One Kelp Flakes, and Omega One Mini Veggie Pellets (sinking). We also sometimes fed our mbunas duckweed. I've never heard of a swallowing problem. If he's spitting is food out, it may be he just doesn't like it (yet). The Repashy may be just too gummy for him . . . I don't really know.

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 12/24/2021 at 10:57 PM, Fish Folk said:

Have you tried frozen Spirulina Brine Shrimp? Take 1x cube, and thaw it out in a cup of warm water, and feed sparingly through a pipette, or similar. I use an over the counter Walmart liquid oral medicine syringe with a 4-inch piece of airline tubing attached. He'll need a diet that includes greens. We used to feed ours Omega One Kelp Flakes, and Omega One Mini Veggie Pellets (sinking). We also sometimes fed our mbunas duckweed. I've never heard of a swallowing problem. If he's spitting is food out, it may be he just doesn't like it (yet). The Repashy may be just too gummy for him . . . I don't really know.

I appreciate the response! He doesn't like the flake I have, but neither do the others; it may just be too old, so I'll be throwing it out. I tested soaking the Cichlid XTreme today before giving it to him, and while it's still difficult that seems to be helping a lot. He would go after it eagerly before, but didn't seem to be able to do more than try to chew it. Softened some, he's going after it even faster and definitely actually swallowing it. I'll just have to remember to do that when I feed them. 🙂

[gardenman]

The spitting out of food isn't unusual for fish in my experience. Many of my swordtails do that on a regular basis. The food hits the water and they attack it like sharks, then spit it out and go on to another piece. Then later they go back and eat the food off the bottom, even fighting for the very food they'd spit out a moment earlier. I'm not sure it isn't a natural inbred response to food. Most of the food they'd be eating in the wild would be alive (insects, crustaceans, etc.), so killing it first (chomping it then spitting it out) would prevent accidentally ingesting something that if still alive could harm the fish internally. A lot of insects are armored in some manner and if you ingested one while alive, it could do damage by actively biting/clawing at a fish's internal organs. By biting it, killing it, then going back to eat it later they prevent that outcome. Now flake food and pellets aren't alive, but if their nature says to treat it like it is, that makes sense. Having never been a fish (at least to the best of my recollection) I can't say for sure if that's the case, but it makes sense. Kill it, then eat it. Fish don't have guns or knives to kill the food, so they chomp it, spit it out, let it fall to the bottom and then eat it.

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 12/25/2021 at 5:13 AM, gardenman said:

The spitting out of food isn't unusual for fish in my experience. Many of my swordtails do that on a regular basis. The food hits the water and they attack it like sharks, then spit it out and go on to another piece. Then later they go back and eat the food off the bottom, even fighting for the very food they'd spit out a moment earlier. I'm not sure it isn't a natural inbred response to food. Most of the food they'd be eating in the wild would be alive (insects, crustaceans, etc.), so killing it first (chomping it then spitting it out) would prevent accidentally ingesting something that if still alive could harm the fish internally. A lot of insects are armored in some manner and if you ingested one while alive, it could do damage by actively biting/clawing at a fish's internal organs. By biting it, killing it, then going back to eat it later they prevent that outcome. Now flake food and pellets aren't alive, but if their nature says to treat it like it is, that makes sense. Having never been a fish (at least to the best of my recollection) I can't say for sure if that's the case, but it makes sense. Kill it, then eat it. Fish don't have guns or knives to kill the food, so they chomp it, spit it out, let it fall to the bottom and then eat it.

I suppose it makes sense, Still, I did raise one healthy group before I had an accident that wiped the tank, and they didn't do anything like that. He is also a good deal skinnier than the others.

[Colu]

Spitting food out and losing weight can be signs of wasting disease recommend treatment is Fritz Expel p active ingredient is levamisole or a product containing flubendazole @LisaTheWhiteWolf

Edited December 27, 2021 by Colu

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 12/26/2021 at 5:12 AM, Colu said:

Spitting food out and losing can be signs of wasting disease recommend treatment is Fritz Expel p active ingredient is levamisole or a product containing flubendazole @LisaTheWhiteWolf

I like to deworm these guys anyway, so it's not a bad idea. I figured PraziPro was enough, but that does make me wonder. I'll see about buying some. Thanks!

[quikv6]

Hey Lisa,

     I had posted to your other thread regarding wasting disease, but figured I'd post a more detailed response here:

Personally, I have been successful with two Meds for wasting disease....Levamisole and Flubendazole. Levamisole is marketed in "Expel-P", and is readily available, unlike Flubendazole.  I use both, but have been MUCH more successful with Flubendazole in dire cases. To be honest...it has been the best money I have spent on anything fish-keeping related. I base what I use on the below:

-Pay special note on eating characteristics: Is the fish eating, or is the fish trying to eat, but spitting it out? If the former, you can use Levamisole in the food. I have found this much better than in the water column.

If the fish is spitting it out, the parasite is causing "inflammation" (or the equivalent in fish), preventing the fish from swallowing. In these cases, i go right to Flubendazole, which can be absorbed by the gills, since the fish can't put food down. I still add it to food, and even if the fish spits it, at least the med is in it's mouth for a few seconds.

After 1-2 days w/ Flubendazole in the water column, I have found the fish to start swallowing. Within a few days, it starts putting on weight. Bloodworms soaked in the med+Garlic guard are my go-to when trying get a fish to eat and keep food down.

I hope this helps. Sorry about the lengthy post, but wasting can be very tricky, and you need to act fast. The fish will literally starve to death.

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 12/27/2021 at 2:18 PM, quikv6 said:

 

Thanks! I have had some success getting him to eat Repashy. I'll have to put the med in there. I appreciate the help very much!!

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 12/26/2021 at 5:12 AM, Colu said:

Spitting food out and losing weight can be signs of wasting disease recommend treatment is Fritz Expel p active ingredient is levamisole or a product containing flubendazole @LisaTheWhiteWolf

 

On 12/27/2021 at 2:18 PM, quikv6 said:

Hey Lisa,

     I had posted to your other thread regarding wasting disease, but figured I'd post a more detailed response here:

Personally, I have been successful with two Meds for wasting disease....Levamisole and Flubendazole. Levamisole is marketed in "Expel-P", and is readily available, unlike Flubendazole.  I use both, but have been MUCH more successful with Flubendazole in dire cases. To be honest...it has been the best money I have spent on anything fish-keeping related. I base what I use on the below:

It looks like you guys were right on the money. I used some Expel-P a couple days ago and, while it's still difficult, he seems to be swallowing the pellets at this point. I'll be keeping him isolated in the breeder net until he's ready to compete with the others, but he's apparently on the mend. THANK YOU!

[quikv6]

Glad he seems to be doing better. Monitor him for weight gain, and keeping food down. I don't know the directions on Expel-P specifically, but it is common for a few doses/treatments to be necessary with Levamisole or Flubendazole. Thanks for the positive update!

[LisaTheWhiteWolf]

On 1/3/2022 at 2:30 AM, quikv6 said:

Glad he seems to be doing better. Monitor him for weight gain, and keeping food down. I don't know the directions on Expel-P specifically, but it is common for a few doses/treatments to be necessary with Levamisole or Flubendazole. Thanks for the positive update!

Will do 🙂