Notice: Levamisole Treatment is NOT totally snail-safe.

[laritheloud]

I just want to put out a warning about Levamisole being marketed as invert-safe. I've noticed in several tanks that it is not.

Nerites, shrimp, and 'pest' snails, along with Japanese Trapdoor Snails, will survive the treatment okay. Mystery snails, giant ramshorn snails, and rabbit snails will not.

This is just a heads up to only use this medication if you're absolutely sure of a nematode diagnosis, or it's in a quarantine tank before adding to your display. I'm pretty sure I poisoned most of my favorite snails, and the only tank it's seemed to have a positive effect on is my endler tank.

That said, should I do a follow-up treatment on the tank where I don't think it made a difference? I don't want to discontinue a course if it will do more harm than good but I have seen absolutely no worms anywhere, and all I did was kill my snails.

[Colu]

It says it invertebrate safe I have used with black Ramshorn bladder snails and Malaysia trumpet snail in my tank and not had any problems I have never used with any other species of snails maybe their more sensitive to medications if you still have snails left in that tank I would remove them and do another course even if you haven't see much improvement it can take 2-3 courses of treatment as some parasites can be more resistant to the medication so it can take a longer time for you to see any improvement

[laritheloud]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:27 AM, Colu said:

It says it invertebrate safe I have used with black Ramshorn bladder snails and Malaysia trumpet snail in my tank and not had any problems I have never used with any other species of snails maybe their more sensitive to medications if you still have snails left in that tank I would remove them and do another course even if you haven't see much improvement it can take 2-3 courses of treatment as some parasites can be more resistant to the medication so it can take a longer time for you to see any improvement

I'm going to continue the treatment for another 2 courses. The Endler tank is really looking good and I am almost certain it helped them. Just thought I'd caution folks to remove their mystery snails and related snails -- From my observations ALL my small ramshorns, bladder snails, shrimp, nerites, trapdoor, and baby rabbit snails are moving around and behaving fine. The adult rabbits and the Colombian Giant Ramshorn aren't making it.

[Colu]

It strange how it only seem to have effected adult rabbits snails  Colombian Giant Ramshorn snails mystery snails how long did it take to affect your snails  

[laritheloud]

On 12/1/2021 at 10:57 AM, Colu said:

It strange how it only seem to have effected adult rabbits snails  Colombian Giant Ramshorn snails mystery snails how long did it take to affect your snails  

They were still for the day of treatment, then moved around maybe one day after, then stopped moving and flailed their antennae for 4 days. I found my Giant Colombian Ramshorn this morning, after he hadn't moved for three days straight (he let his antennae out a few times and I tried to hold out hope), with the small ramshorn and bladder snails starting to eat him.

EDIT: I also erred on the side of caution and slightly underdosed according to instructions. I bought my levamisole from Greg Sage and used the included spoon in the kit. Just under 10 gallon measure for a 10 gallon tank, scant 50 gallon measure for my 55 gallon tank.

Edited December 1, 2021 by laritheloud

[Brandon p]

There are some many variables with snails and meds. Snails can have super thin shells  lacking or minerals cracked shells. A lot of the time they can not close the operculum totally and any snails that don’t have a operculum(the door on the shell of some snails) I remove any snails that I will need to rebuild the population ramshorn, and mystery snails. 

[laritheloud]

On 12/1/2021 at 11:30 AM, Brandon p said:

There are some many variables with snails and meds. Snails can have super thin shells  lacking or minerals cracked shells. A lot of the time they can not close the operculum totally and any snails that don’t have a operculum(the door on the shell of some snails) I remove any snails that I will need to rebuild the population ramshorn, and mystery snails. 

I’ve learned my lesson. It’s not a deficiency because their shells are perfect. I’ll be using levamisole in my quarantine procedure from now on I think…

[Brandon p]

On 12/1/2021 at 12:09 PM, laritheloud said:

I’ve learned my lesson. It’s not a deficiency because their shells are perfect. I’ll be using levamisole in my quarantine procedure from now on I think…

I know you loved the snails. I’m not as versed in the rabbit snails as I have and opinion on the Colombian ramshorn and expressed be fore I’m not going to comment on those two. You may want to have a few ramshorn and mystery snails growing in an 20 gallon or smaller container and have a few extra. Going all the time. There will be so very few meds that will be 100% safe for snails or shrimp. I’m  sure lots of people will say I have never had a problem and they are probably truthful. There is a problem when not treating tanks is when the disease remains in the tank. There is no perfect medication. That why I rarely recommend meds I use. 

[laritheloud]

So I’m still concerned about the virulence in this tank. Administered second round of levamisole last night. There’s one male that’s VERY SLIGHTLY paler and has a stringy white poo. I’m not sure if I’m hyper analyzing or if his full plate looks a bit pinker than the others.

other symptoms I’ve noticed in other fish: wasting, pallor, weak swimming. One female bloated up and had very stringy white poo then weakened rapidly. I separated before they declined further.

is this a sign the levamisole is working through their symptoms or is it a virulent, chronic bacterial infection? This is only affecting some of my rainbows and I’d hate to expose the rest of the tank to more meds. I’m getting really tired and despondent about it, regretting picking up these pseudomugils to begin with. They’re just seemingly super sensitive. I had kept these fish isolated for two full months, went through general cure several rounds, and fed them 10 days of kanaplex in food. More recently it’s been two rounds of levamisole one week apart and metronidazole in food, just finished the course. I am reluctant to keep throwing meds at this but I’m at a loss, especially when my thicklip gouramis and my synodontis petricola look fine…

 

I circled the fish having stringy poo. I want to relax and stop feeling so anxious and this is frustrating me. When these fish go I’m going to get rosy barbs or Some kind of tetras instead. Rainbows are not working out.

[laritheloud]

Taking a closer look and the fish looks red and bloody on one side. 😞 @Colu is there any chance I can just separate the rainbowfish out for antibiotic treatment or do I have to treat the whole tank and expose everyone to stress?

[laritheloud]

Here are the antibiotic meds I have, just to make it easier:

Oxytetracycline (medicated feed)
Kanaplex AND Kanamycin medicated feed
Furan-2
Nitrofurazone medicated feed
Erythromycin
Ciproflaxin 500 mg
Sulfa/Trim 800mg/160mg

Other meds:
PraziPro
General Cure
Levamisole HCL
Metronidazole/Metro Medicated Feed
ICH-X

There is currently Levamisole in the water, and I'm doing a PWC tonight. I discontinued Metro medicated feed after about 9 days; yesterday was the last dose.

[Colu]

When fish have parasites it can leave them vulnerable to opportunistic bacterial infection I would keep treating with the levamisole it can take 3 courses of treatment I would treat all the fish in the main tank the  oxytetracycline medicated feed  should take care of any secondary bacterial infection you could separate them  if you don't won't to put the other fish thought the antibiotic treatment

[laritheloud]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:08 PM, Colu said:

When fish have parasites it can leave them vulnerable to opportunistic bacterial infection I would keep treating with the levamisole it can take 3 courses of treatment I would treat all the fish in the main tank the  oxytetracycline medicated feed  should take care of any secondary bacterial infection you could separate them  if you don't won't to put the other fish thought the antibiotic treatment

Thanks, as always, for calming me down. I can start a course of the oxytetracycline feed tomorrow. Is that for 7 to 10 days?

[Colu]

I usually feed antibiotic medication for 7 days 

[laritheloud]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:15 PM, Colu said:

I usually feed antibiotic medication for 7 days 

I really hope this ends my problems. I'm so sad these pretty little fish have had difficulties.

[Colu]

 the combination of levamisole and oxytetracycline should do the the does the trick 

[laritheloud]

Thank you 😅 I'm prepared for all disasters and when disaster strikes, I'm frightened! Also, I wanted to update, @Colu, that though my Colombian Giant Ramshorn snail did not make it, my rabbit snails are still alive. They're lethargic but still alive. The babies are active and doing just fine. Fingers crossed they're just kinda hybernating until treatment is over.

[Colu]

Have you moved the rabbit snails to another tank to recover

[laritheloud]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:44 PM, Colu said:

Have you moved the rabbit snails to another tank to recover

I'm going to prior to the last treatment! So long as they're still hanging in they can live in my quarantine tank. 20 gallon is still getting set up but my 10 gallon is doing great, I didn't move them over yet because all except 1 of my tanks went through levamisole treatment. The quarantine finished 3 rounds first.

[laritheloud]

Here to provide an update! @Colu thank you very much, the oxytetracycline is doing the trick. Damaged fins are healing and the bloody gill spot has healed. They're halfway through the round of medicated feed. Tomorrow I'll administer round 3 of levamisole and change the water again Saturday evening. Should I do a fourth week or is three weeks considered 'safe'? I'll be moving my adult rabbits, too, who are both seemingly still alive (no one is eating them and they respond to light and pecking from fish) but not moving around.

Edited December 9, 2021 by laritheloud

[Colu]

On 12/9/2021 at 2:53 PM, laritheloud said:

Here to provide an update! @Colu thank you very much, the oxytetracycline is doing the trick. Damaged fins are healing and the bloody gill spot has healed. They're halfway through the round of medicated feed. Tomorrow I'll administer round 3 of levamisole and change the water again Saturday evening. Should I do a fourth week or is three weeks considered 'safe'? I'll be moving my adult rabbits, too, who are both seemingly still alive (no one is eating them and they respond to light and pecking from fish) but not moving around.

Three full course of levamisole should be enough to treat most internal parasites I would just monitor them closely after you have finished your 3rd Course but I don't think you will have any problems after that last dose

[laritheloud]

All meds are now finished in all of my established, stocked tanks, with the last dose of Levamisole administered on Friday and PWC'd out on Saturday. I started Oxytetracycline feed last Sunday and finished the course at Day 9, yesterday. I was tempted to do one more day but ended up letting them eat their regular diet. Color has returned to the fish I was concerned about, and the gills have healed. 1 Rabbit Snail has died. The others are still in a questionable state, but I've ordered Devil Spike Snails to try next. We'll see!

If any of these rainbows start to show problems again after this, I'll scoop them out and move them to my 20 gallon long quarantine. They can live out their lives in a 20 just fine at their size. Fingers crossed that I can move on now and breathe some sighs of relief.

[laritheloud]

Final toll.

Lost a few fish early on in treatment (Rainbows). My Colombian Ramshorn and two adult rabbit snails did not make it. I was delighted to find that after a month of almost no activity, my remaining adult rabbit snail ate today, and climbed the glass again. The baby rabbit snails that I could find are doing fine, as well as all the small ramshorns, pond snails, and malaysian trumpets. Japanese trapdoor snails and nerite snails both went through treatment completely unaffected. Shrimp slowed down a little with the first round, but didn't even flinch with subsequent rounds. All healthy fish were totally unbothered.

My 10 gallon endler tank looks to be back to normal. The "Big Guy" Endler who looks maybe-female is back to full health, eating vigorously, and plumping up again.

My 55 gallon tank went through a 9 day antibiotic treatment in food along with levamisole. The bleeding gill plate I noticed is completely gone as well as the stringy poop. The tank looks like it's starting to thrive again. If the rainbows start to struggle again, I will move them to my 20 gallon tank where they'll live out their lives away from the bigger fish.

I'm fiiiiinally feeling a bit more at-ease and at-peace with my tanks again, and looking forward to seeing what happy surprises this hobby will continue to bring. Warning still stands to proceed with caution when dosing a tank with pet snails (especially those in the apple snail family), because there is a chance they'll suffer for it.

[Entorwellian]

Hey sorry to bump this but I'm facing the same problem with Camellanus redworms and having a Blue Mystery Snail in the tank. I've ordered some levamisole HCl and I've been debating whether or not to move the snail into the rescue tank while treating the main tank, or if he is infected and should be treated with the rest of them. I don't want to lose him, either.

I've been trying to do internet research but the results are mixed. It says invertibrates are fine if the dosing is right, but I don't want to go through the process of de-worming the fish of the snail is carrying it and is going to bring it back into the tank a month or two later.

Suggestions?

[laritheloud]

On 1/19/2022 at 3:49 PM, Entorwellian said:

Hey sorry to bump this but I'm facing the same problem with Camellanus redworms and having a Blue Mystery Snail in the tank. I've ordered some levamisole HCl and I've been debating whether or not to move the snail into the rescue tank while treating the main tank, or if he is infected and should be treated with the rest of them. I don't want to lose him, either.

I've been trying to do internet research but the results are mixed. It says invertibrates are fine if the dosing is right, but I don't want to go through the process of de-worming the fish of the snail is carrying it and is going to bring it back into the tank a month or two later.

Suggestions?

Gosh, this is tough and I faced the same conundrum. In all likelihood I don't think your mystery snail will survive the treatment. Most of my larger 'fancy' snails passed away during the treatment process. Only one of my rabbit snails (the smallest adult) and all of my baby rabbit snails, along with my nerites, survived. Mystery snails and their relatives don't appear to be built to withstand levamisole treatment.

There doesn't appear to be a consensus that mystery snails can act as a host for camallanus. I don't know how much risk there is in keeping them separate for up to 2 months and then moving them back, because I can't find controlled experiments that prove whether or not mysteries carry and transmit this parasite. I wish I could help you more, but I think it's up to you to decide how to proceed. 😞 Knowing what I do now, I'd probably move them out of the tank for treatment.