All Ecosystem Components?

[CalmedByFish]

Since my life requires that I sometimes unexpectedly ditch my tanks for a week, I'm trying to have all the components of a stable ecosystem. Please see if you're aware of anything I'm missing:

inert gravel substrate (for stability) 

2 sponge filters

bacteria

micro crustaceans

snails: 3 small species

neocaridina (will start breeding soon)

breeding endlers

1 angelfish 

plants: planted in substrate, epithytes, floating, pothos

My thinking is that if I'm suddenly gone, all the animals have some other animal (or detritus) that they can eat. Even if the angel died, every other species would teamwork to "clean it up." Plants would help with water quality. 

Am I missing a link in the food chain?

Or in the "water quality chain?"

[Mmiller2001]

On 8/1/2021 at 1:51 PM, CalmedByFish said:

Since my life requires that I sometimes unexpectedly ditch my tanks for a week, I'm trying to have all the components of a stable ecosystem. Please see if you're aware of anything I'm missing:

inert gravel substrate (for stability) 

2 sponge filters

bacteria

micro crustaceans

snails: 3 small species

neocaridina (will start breeding soon)

breeding endlers

1 angelfish 

plants: planted in substrate, epithytes, floating, pothos

My thinking is that if I'm suddenly gone, all the animals have some other animal (or detritus) that they can eat. Even if the angel died, every other species would teamwork to "clean it up." Plants would help with water quality. 

Am I missing a link in the food chain?

Or in the "water quality chain?"

More plants, and more plants. 

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/1/2021 at 3:42 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

More plants, and more plants. 

Funny, that was my best guess for a next priority! (I even have that other thread going about struggling with plants right now.) 

[KentFishFanUK]

On 8/1/2021 at 8:51 PM, CalmedByFish said:

Since my life requires that I sometimes unexpectedly ditch my tanks for a week, I'm trying to have all the components of a stable ecosystem. Please see if you're aware of anything I'm missing:

inert gravel substrate (for stability) 

2 sponge filters

bacteria

micro crustaceans

snails: 3 small species

neocaridina (will start breeding soon)

breeding endlers

1 angelfish 

plants: planted in substrate, epithytes, floating, pothos

My thinking is that if I'm suddenly gone, all the animals have some other animal (or detritus) that they can eat. Even if the angel died, every other species would teamwork to "clean it up." Plants would help with water quality. 

Am I missing a link in the food chain?

Or in the "water quality chain?"

Good question I find myself attracted towards the 'natural' methods of tank maintenance so will be following the thread!

Only thing I can think to add is enough lighting I guess? For the plants to grow and therefore clean the water but also for some algae etc to grow to feed the shrimp and fry (and in turn feed the bigger fish right?). Fertilizer/nutrients too for that matter. Not that you wouldn't have thought of lighting etc already but imo it's important enough to make the list haha.

How do you get the micro crustaceans/keep them going? 

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/1/2021 at 4:39 PM, KentFishFanUK said:

Only thing I can think to add is enough lighting I guess? For the plants to grow and therefore clean the water but also for some algae etc to grow to feed the shrimp and fry (and in turn feed the bigger fish right?). Fertilizer/nutrients too for that matter. 

How do you get the micro crustaceans/keep them going? 

Lighting and ferts are tricky for me. I want to grow green algae that my critters will peck at, but I end up with "yuck" algaes like staghorn, green hair, or annoying green water. The plants need plenty of light and ferts, and giving it to them should help them outcompete the algae, but instead, that just gives me yuck algaes, and no desirable algaes. (I wonder if there's a way to seed a tank with desirable algae.)

The micro crustaceans rode in on plants. So did micro worms, but their numbers have dwindled. Both species seem to be most numerous when they have places to safely get away from the fish, with very low water movement. The crustaceans do best with snail poo to eat. The worms seem to do well with snail poo and rotting food.

 

[KentFishFanUK]

@CalmedByFish all my micro crustaceans seemed to disappear once I had fish in there, I'd love to keep a healthy population as part of the ecosystem plus occasional snacks for the fish but not sure how to manage it. 

I don't know any details but maybe look into which type of algae likes which micro nutrients and then switch your fertilizer based on which algae you want? Not sure it's feasible without doing your own fertilizer from scratch but I guess it's technically possible right? 

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/1/2021 at 5:45 PM, KentFishFanUK said:

@CalmedByFish all my micro crustaceans seemed to disappear once I had fish in there, I'd love to keep a healthy population

I don't know any details but maybe look into which type of algae likes which micro nutrients and then switch your fertilizer based on which algae you want? Not sure it's feasible without doing your own fertilizer from scratch but I guess it's technically possible right? 

I was thinking about the microfauna thing, too. I'm guessing it would help to identify the part of the substrate that has the lowest flow, put a loose pile of rocks there (so microfauna can move freely but adult fish can't get in), then regularly drop a small bit of sinking food into the pile. Only the ones that venture out of the rock pile would get eaten, so the population wouldn't be decimated. (Now as to how to obtain microfauna? For me, it was luck. I think some can be bought online.) 

Interesting thought on the algae ferts. I'll roll that idea around. I know for sure that I need to keep maintenance simple, but it might work!

[KentFishFanUK]

On 8/2/2021 at 12:47 AM, CalmedByFish said:

I was thinking about the microfauna thing, too. I'm guessing it would help to identify the part of the substrate that has the lowest flow, put a loose pile of rocks there (so microfauna can move freely but adult fish can't get in), then regularly drop a small bit of sinking food into the pile. Only the ones that venture out of the rock pile would get eaten, so the population wouldn't be decimated. (Now as to how to obtain microfauna? For me, it was luck. I think some can be bought online.) 

Interesting thought on the algae ferts. I'll roll that idea around. I know for sure that I need to keep maintenance simple, but it might work!

Good idea with the pile of rocks I might try that, or maybe small pieces of driftwood or a bit of both.

In fact I know just where to put it in my community tank, I have a slow flow corner with a couple small anubias tied to small bits of slate, I could make the rock pile there and incorporate the anubias.

Thanks! Now I just need to find some crustaceans haha!

I sometimes feed repashy soilent green and small bits of it often break off and end up all the round the tank anyway until they get cleaned up by the cories or sucked into the filter and I'm guessing that would probably feed them. 

Yay new project!

[FrozenFins]

Plants that grow fast and suck up lots of nutrients would be the best bet for this. Plants like hornwort would be a great example!

 If you want to go completle eco-system (no waterchanges, ferts, filter) I would try the walstad method aquarium. Dianna Walstad wrote a fantastic book about it, would reccemend a read!

I've actually seen WAYY better plant growth using the walstad method, then I have the "regular" method.

[CalmedByFish]

On 8/1/2021 at 10:58 PM, James Black said:

Plants that grow fast and suck up lots of nutrients would be the best bet for this. Plants like hornwort would be a great example!

 If you want to go completle eco-system (no waterchanges, ferts, filter) I would try the walstad method aquarium. Dianna Walstad wrote a fantastic book about it, would reccemend a read!

I've actually seen WAYY better plant growth using the walstad method, then I have the "regular" method.

I was just looking at your walstad/Vader set up! 🙂 

I have hornwort growing out of control. My favorite plants are an Amazon sword and vallisneria, so I'm prioritizing on getting them healthy atm. 

To me, the Walstad method seems... dirty... no pun intended. I am slightly interested in putting a shallow layer of one of those "dirt ball" substrates on the tank floor, underneath my usual gravel, just to help the plants establish. Then I'd just treat it as a gravel substrate, adding root tabs as needed. But I'm concerned that any substrate that isn't inert could cause a nitrate spike or some other glitch while I'm away and can't do anything about it.