Fritzzyme 7 to cycle tank

[Chlo]

I got some fritz zyme 7 from aquarium co op recently and was wondering if the product gives false testing for ammonia. I originally bought a bottle from amazon but was unsure if it was safe because one of the reviews said that you should test the product for ammonia to make sure it is not spoiled. I tried that, and it tested for 4-8 ppm ammonia. I thought it was spoiled, so I bought another from aquarium co op. I tested that bottle, and got the same results. I contacted fritz zyme and they said it is a false reading because it was not meant to be tested for ammonia, which I thought made sense. So, I used the fritz zyme in one of my betta tanks. I waited a little and when I tested the water the ammonia rose from 1-2 ppm to 4 ppm. I think the product worked though, because right now I am seeing almost no ammonia and some nitrites. But I was wondering if the reading when I first added the product to the tank was false, because I am planning on using it in a quarantine tank and a new tank. I don't want to use it if the ammonia actually was that high because that wouldn't be safe for the new fish.

[Fish Folk]

18 hours ago, Chlo said:

I got some fritz zyme 7 from aquarium co op recently and was wondering if the product gives false testing for ammonia. I originally bought a bottle from amazon but was unsure if it was safe because one of the reviews said that you should test the product for ammonia to make sure it is not spoiled. I tried that, and it tested for 4-8 ppm ammonia. I thought it was spoiled, so I bought another from aquarium co op. I tested that bottle, and got the same results. I contacted fritz zyme and they said it is a false reading because it was not meant to be tested for ammonia, which I thought made sense. So, I used the fritz zyme in one of my betta tanks. I waited a little and when I tested the water the ammonia rose from 1-2 ppm to 4 ppm. I think the product worked though, because right now I am seeing almost no ammonia and some nitrites. But I was wondering if the reading when I first added the product to the tank was false, because I am planning on using it in a quarantine tank and a new tank. I don't want to use it if the ammonia actually was that high because that wouldn't be safe for the new fish.

I’m not sure, but is it possible that it contains Ammonium (which will register as Ammonia on titration tests)? 

[Axle86]

In my experience using Fritz Zyme 7. I only tested positive for ammonia when there was an ammonia source like Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. I don't recall ever reading ammonia present when using without something else with it. 

As far as I know it is just the bacteria, but getting 4-8 ppm ammonia is pretty significant so I'm baffled by your experience. I do use the API master kit for ammonia and not sure if perhaps certain ammonia tests could somehow react to it? 

Is this in a new tank that hasn't been cycled? Is there a possible other ammonia source, such as [previously] having fish in the tank? 

edit: And yep, if you're seeing no ammonia and some nitrite you're on the right path. Eventually you should see some nitrates.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Axle86

[Chlo]

3 hours ago, Fish Folk said:

I’m not sure, but is it possible that it contains Ammonium (which will register as Ammonia on titration tests)? 

I'm not sure,  I don't know too much about ammonium.

 

2 hours ago, Axle86 said:

In my experience using Fritz Zyme 7. I only tested positive for ammonia when there was an ammonia source like Dr. Tim's ammonium chloride. I don't recall ever reading ammonia present when using without something else with it. 

As far as I know it is just the bacteria, but getting 4-8 ppm ammonia is pretty significant so I'm baffled by your experience. I do use the API master kit for ammonia and not sure if perhaps certain ammonia tests could somehow react to it? 

Is this in a new tank that hasn't been cycled? Is there a possible other ammonia source, such as [previously] having fish in the tank? 

Both of the tanks had the bettas in them already and were not cycled but had around 1 ppm ammonia. I'm new to the hobby so I made the mistake of getting my fish before setting up my tank. The first tank I messed up the cycling a lot and treated my fish with medicine a few times because I thought she was sick, but it only stressed her out more. For my second tank, a couple weeks ago I saw around .25 ammonia, then a little bit of nitrites but no nitrates. I was using prime everyday because it is supposed to detoxify the ammonia.

[Axle86]

@Chlo No worries. I've been there myself when I got back into the hobby, and when I say I got back into the hobby...before I didn't really know about the nitrogen cycle.  In short, glad I came across Aquarium Co-Op's youtube channel. 

So Ammonium itself is non-toxic (or less toxic) to fish. The catch about ammonium is that if the pH is above ~6.4 it becomes ammonia which is of course very toxic to fish.

In your case my thinking would be that the fish (or rather their poop) is the ammonia source. So adding the Fritz Zyme was a good thing and since you're not showing any ammonia you're mostly ok. I say mostly because nitrite is still toxic to fish, but not as bad as ammonia. Not sure the exact threshold of toxicity on nitrite but I would think less than 0.5 ppm is probably ok (take with a grain of salt as it might be less than that) but you may want to add something like Seachem Prime which will detoxify nitrite to be on the safe side. The instructions on their product say to dose 5x the normal amount for detoxifying nitrite, but doesn't indicate if you need to redose (perhaps someone can chime in on that as I myself have not used prime). Otherwise I would think you're probably on the home-stretch on getting the tank cycled.

The next thing to watch once the nitrite goes down is nitrate which as a general rule of thumb shouldn't exceed ~40 ppm, aim for about 10-20. Live plants will consume some of the nitrates and reduce how often you will need to change out water.

 

 

[Chlo]

1 hour ago, Axle86 said:

 

So Ammonium itself is non-toxic (or less toxic) to fish. The catch about ammonium is that if the pH is above ~6.4 it becomes ammonia which is of course very toxic to fish.

In your case my thinking would be that the fish (or rather their poop) is the ammonia source. So adding the Fritz Zyme was a good thing and since you're not showing any ammonia you're mostly ok. I say mostly because nitrite is still toxic to fish, but not as bad as ammonia. Not sure the exact threshold of toxicity on nitrite but I would think less than 0.5 ppm is probably ok (take with a grain of salt as it might be less than that) but you may want to add something like Seachem Prime which will detoxify nitrite to be on the safe side. The instructions on their product say to dose 5x the normal amount for detoxifying nitrite, but doesn't indicate if you need to redose (perhaps someone can chime in on that as I myself have not used prime). Otherwise I would think you're probably on the home-stretch on getting the tank cycled.

The next thing to watch once the nitrite goes down is nitrate which as a general rule of thumb shouldn't exceed ~40 ppm, aim for about 10-20. Live plants will consume some of the nitrates and reduce how often you will need to change out water.

I think my ph is 8.0 which I know is not the best for bettas..... But before when I used the test strips instead of the liquid test kit my tank and tap water ph was 7.5, but now my tap water tests 8.2 and tank water is 7.6-8.0. I can't really tell the exact ph the test kit is showing because the color changes depending on the lighting. I hope it isn't because my ph is changing all the time. I have really high ph and gh (180) but kind of low kh (80-120)

The ammonia and nitrite got pretty high for both tanks but now they are both lowering. I also have some live plants, but they may have contributed to the ammonia in the tank because some of them died and there were a lot of dead leaves in the water. Oh and also I'm already seeing nitrate for both tanks, which is kind of weird but maybe it was because I added fertilizer which I heard might have nitrates to the tanks. That was a few weeks ago though.

Do you think I should use the fritz zyme for my new tank and quarantine tank? I am planning on getting panda corydoras and I heard they are sensitive to ammonia and nitrite. If fritz zyme really raised the ammonia I don't want to risk it.

Edited April 26, 2021 by Chlo

[Axle86]

I don't think Fritz Zyme was the ammonia source, not saying it is 100% without a shadow of a doubt impossible but shouldn't cause ammonia.

Yes, pH, GH & KH are a little high for bettas and panda corys but I don't know that it would prevent you from keeping them, so if someone more knowledgeable would chime in, I know both fish prefer softer, lower pH (7 and under). However, it is best to not try chasing the pH & hardness, that would likely prove more stressful for the fish than just keeping them in your water. The fluctuations in pH are also from the amount of CO2 & O2 in the water, so water changes shouldn't be a problem. That being said you can get RO (reverse osmosis water) which removes all the minerals that make the water hard but those setups can be outside of someone's budget. 

As far as the test strips go it depends on the brand as to how easy it is to read, even the liquid tests can be hard to tell under certain light. 

 

[Chlo]

Just now, Axle86 said:

I don't think Fritz Zyme was the ammonia source, not saying it is 100% without a shadow of a doubt impossible but shouldn't cause ammonia.

Yeah, some reviews said it tested for ammonia because the bacteria died, but so far it seems to be helping my tanks cycle.

1 minute ago, Axle86 said:

Yes, pH, GH & KH are a little high for bettas and panda corys but I don't know that it would prevent you from keeping them, so if someone more knowledgeable would chime in, I know both fish prefer softer, lower pH (7 and under). However, it is best to not try chasing the pH & hardness, that would likely prove more stressful for the fish than just keeping them in your water. The fluctuations in pH are also from the amount of CO2 & O2 in the water, so water changes shouldn't be a problem. That being said you can get RO (reverse osmosis water) which removes all the minerals that make the water hard but those setups can be outside of someone's budget. 

As far as the test strips go it depends on the brand as to how easy it is to read, even the liquid tests can be hard to tell under certain light. 

I heard that plants affect the ph because they take in carbon dioxide and release oxygen, so maybe that is why? I was also thinking of mixing RO water with my tap to get the right ph and everything, and at my lfs you can get a gallon of RO water for 5 cents. I'm not sure if I am going to do this because it sounds complicated with getting the right ratio, doing water changes and getting the water to the right temperature and everything, but if that is the only way I can keep panda corydoras I will do that.

[Schwack]

I wouldn't bother adjusting your pH for the fish you're planning to keep. Bettas are extremely adaptable and can do very well in 8.0 pH water. It's what all mine are kept in, and I've seen at least one breeder keep them in the same parameter water. I've also successfully kept corys in that pH. Stability is more important than chasing a number and having to mess with RO water for every change turns an easy job into something you need to plan for.

[Axle86]

From my understanding CO2 present will drive the pH down, since plants will take in the CO2 it will raise the pH. So depending on how much CO2 and other dissolved gases that are present in your tap water will have an effect on the pH. I suppose you could put some tap water in a cup or bowl and let it sit overnight to get a clearer picture of what your water is like once it's gone into your tank.

All in all I think you'll be fine with panda corys. They do like it cooler (some keep theirs around 72) but if your tank is at 78 for your betta you should be fine. I think as long as you're not at 85 or something crazy probably won't have trouble from what I have observed with mine. I keep my 55 community tank around 75-76 F and everyone seems happy with it, both betta and panda corys.

[Chlo]

23 minutes ago, Schwack said:

I wouldn't bother adjusting your pH for the fish you're planning to keep. Bettas are extremely adaptable and can do very well in 8.0 pH water. It's what all mine are kept in, and I've seen at least one breeder keep them in the same parameter water. I've also successfully kept corys in that pH. Stability is more important than chasing a number and having to mess with RO water for every change turns an easy job into something you need to plan for.

Oh ok, that's good news. It would be a lot of trouble to use RO and tap water for my tank.

25 minutes ago, Axle86 said:

From my understanding CO2 present will drive the pH down, since plants will take in the CO2 it will raise the pH. So depending on how much CO2 and other dissolved gases that are present in your tap water will have an effect on the pH. I suppose you could put some tap water in a cup or bowl and let it sit overnight to get a clearer picture of what your water is like once it's gone into your tank.

All in all I think you'll be fine with panda corys. They do like it cooler (some keep theirs around 72) but if your tank is at 78 for your betta you should be fine. I think as long as you're not at 85 or something crazy probably won't have trouble from what I have observed with mine. I keep my 55 community tank around 75-76 F and everyone seems happy with it, both betta and panda corys.

I'll definitely try testing my tap water! Both of my betta tanks are also at 78 degrees.