Looking for more livebearers to go in a 29 gallon guppy tank

[Oftensniped]

So I have a 29 gallon planted aquarium with a school of brilliant green rasboras (10-12), a lone female rainbowfish (from a previous project), and 4 guppies that I am looking to convert into having mostly livebearers but I don't want any interbreeding with the guppies I already have (like what could happen with endlers). I currently have a ziss moving bed filter and the new aquaclear HOB filter on this tank and I am trying to breed orange neocardinia shrimp in here as well. What would be some interesting/colorful livebearers (or any other easy to breed fish) that I could keep with them and won't predate on the fry as my rasboras do currently? I have been eyeing some full red swordtails but I have heard that they can be a bit ornery with other fish and have been skeptical about getting them because of this, what is everyone's thoughts about this as well?

[AtomicSunfish]

On 9/2/2024 at 4:42 PM, Oftensniped said:

4 guppies that I am looking to convert into having mostly livebearers but I don't want any interbreeding with the guppies I already have (like what could happen with endlers).

For what it’s worth, allowing your animals to outcross is a great way to confer greater hardiness to the next generation. Far too many purebred pets are too delicate due to inbreeding depression. So, I wouldn’t dismiss it right away.

Having said that, if you want another nice, colorful, peaceful livebearer you can keep with guppies/Endlers (Poecilia), and that will not hybridize with them, try spotted platies (Xiphophorus maculatus) or variegated platies (X. variegatus). Both get a bit bigger than guppies, have nice colors, and remain peaceful. Variegated platies have the added benefit of being a cooler water fish, and not needing a heater.

Swordtails are really cool, and bigger too, but a bit rowdier. I recommend platies 😎

Edited September 3 by AtomicSunfish

[Oftensniped]

@AtomicSunfish Thank you for the reply! I thought about some platies, especially the Variatus platies since many of them have some amazing colors but I'm really weighing some options! Would mollies work as well? Cause the sailfin mollies are really cool too if you haven't seen them but I'm not sure if they would get too large or not. 

On 9/2/2024 at 8:44 PM, AtomicSunfish said:

For what it’s worth, allowing your animals to outcross is a great way to confer greater hardiness to the next generation. Far too many purebred pets are too delicate due to inbreeding depression. So, I wouldn’t dismiss it right away,

On this topic, won't interbreeding endlers with guppies create babies that are smaller as adults than normal guppies breed with another guppy? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, but I kinda like the normal or even larger sized guppies and do crossbreeding affect sellability or overall demand at all for those fish?

 

[AtomicSunfish]

On 9/2/2024 at 10:20 PM, Oftensniped said:

@AtomicSunfish Thank you for the reply! I thought about some platies, especially the Variatus platies since many of them have some amazing colors but I'm really weighing some options! Would mollies work as well? Cause the sailfin mollies are really cool too if you haven't seen them but I'm not sure if they would get too large or not. 

On this topic, won't interbreeding endlers with guppies create babies that are smaller as adults than normal guppies breed with another guppy? Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, but I kinda like the normal or even larger sized guppies and do crossbreeding affect sellability or overall demand at all for those fish?

 

Mollies are really cool, and there are several species commonly encountered in the pet trade:

Sailfin molly (P. latipinna) - Found from North Carolina down to Mexico. They grow to be 3-5 inches long.

Common molly (Poecilia sphenops) - Found from Mexico down to Colombia. They can also be 3-5 inches long.

Giant sailfin molly (P. velifera) - Found only in Mexico’s Yucatán peninsula. These get a bit bigger, maybe 4-6 inches long.

Many mollies in the pet trade are hybrids of P. sphenops and P. latipinna.

There are two reasons I did not recommend them to you:

1) You said you didn’t want any hybridization, and mollies and guppies are in the same genus, so they’re close enough to hybridize. The offspring are known as gollies or muppies (depending on which species was which parent), and they’re usually sterile (kind of like mules).

2) In my opinion, mollies are not ideal for freshwater aquariums. They’re native to coastlines, and can be found in freshwater, brackish water, and full-strength seawater. I’ve encountered regular sailfin mollies in the hard, freshwater of the Florida Everglades, as well as in the Gulf of Mexico along the Texas shoreline. They’re also often farmed in brackish water. So, in the aquarium they seem to do best in hard water, or even with the addition of some aquarium salt. If they don’t get that, they often get the shimmies (a stressed wagging behavior), followed by ich and/or death. That’s why I’ve never kept them. I’m sure those who do could advise you on how best to keep them, but that’s why I hesitated to recommend them.

Re: breeding guppies / Endlers 

Endlers may be considered either a subspecies of guppy (Poecilia reticulata wingei), or else a sister species (P. wingei). Either way, the two easily cross, and the offspring (known as Endler guppies) are quite healthy and fertile. I breed Endler guppies for my tanks, and their colors are a mix of the two lines I used. As adults, both my males and females get their size from the guppy side of the family tree.

As far as marketability of the offspring, I suppose purebred might be easier to sell and/or would fetch a higher price. But then, the pet trade is not known for rewarding the best breeding practices, when it comes to fish or any other animal. 

[Guppysnail]

I had fun with Limia nigrofasciata.  There are a few really nice looking Limia types. 

[Oftensniped]

On 9/3/2024 at 6:59 AM, AtomicSunfish said:

Mollies are really cool, and there are several species commonly encountered in the pet trade:

Sailfin molly (P. latipinna) - Found from North Carolina down to Mexico. They grow to be 3-5 inches long.

Common molly (Poecilia sphenops) - Found from Mexico down to Colombia. They can also be 3-5 inches long.

Giant sailfin molly (P. velifera) - Found only in Mexico’s Yucatán peninsula. These get a bit bigger, maybe 4-6 inches long.

Many mollies in the pet trade are hybrids of P. sphenops and P. latipinna.

In my opinion, mollies are not ideal for freshwater aquariums.

Interesting, I had no idea that mollies were like this! I had grown up always hearing that mollies were just as hardy as platies and the like in freshwater aquaria. Those are definitely off my list then, maybe a project down the line as I do have very hard water in my area due to all the limestone deposits we have. This is part of the reason I want to move to livebearers and shrimp in the first place since many do so well here.

 

On 9/3/2024 at 6:59 AM, AtomicSunfish said:

Endlers may be considered either a subspecies of guppy (Poecilia reticulata wingei), or else a sister species (P. wingei). Either way, the two easily cross, and the offspring (known as Endler guppies) are quite healthy and fertile. I breed Endler guppies for my tanks, and their colors are a mix of the two lines I used. As adults, both my males and females get their size from the guppy side of the family tree.

As far as marketability of the offspring, I suppose purebred might be easier to sell and/or would fetch a higher price. But then, the pet trade is not known for rewarding the best breeding practices, when it comes to fish or any other animal. 

Yeah it is kind of disappointing how across the pet trade in general, not just fish, but reptiles to dogs, never really reward the breeders for how they breed, only for what is produced. I feel like some shifts are going to happen in that regard though as many in the reptile community are out crying the use of plain/sterile breeding racks for snakes and such, while praising YouTube channels like Snake Discovery for her use in large, decorated breeding racks for her animals. People are starting to care more and that is the first step.

[Oftensniped]

On 9/3/2024 at 8:08 AM, Guppysnail said:

I had fun with Limia nigrofasciata.  There are a few really nice looking Limia types. 

I will do some research into these! I have seen a few of them on other YouTube channels before, but do you have any other specific ones I should look for first? Also, I have seen some halfbeaks floating around on the internet as a decent livebearer but I am unsure if they would do good in this current setup given my HOB. Would that affect them given they are a top-dwelling species?

[Guppysnail]

@Dans-Fish has some great Limia right now. Any are fine. https://dansfish.com/product.search/Limia/recent/100/1

Im not certain of halfbeaks. My friend has some she wants me to breed in my next stock change for her but I’ve not worked with those yet. 

On 9/3/2024 at 11:14 AM, Oftensniped said:

I will do some research into these! I have seen a few of them on other YouTube channels before, but do you have any other specific ones I should look for first? Also, I have seen some halfbeaks floating around on the internet as a decent livebearer but I am unsure if they would do good in this current setup given my HOB. Would that affect them given they are a top-dwelling species?

 

[PineSong]

When I was breeding and selling guppies, my most popular fish were guppy/endler mixes. They had long double tails, crazy mixes of colors and spots, and people preferred them. Here is a photo from my male guppy tank last July--that blue guy with the double tail is the kind everyone picked out first. 

 

[Tony s]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:42 PM, Oftensniped said:

What would be some interesting/colorful livebearers (or any other easy to breed fish) that I could keep with them and won't predate on the fry as my rasboras do currently?

I don’t believe such an animal exists. Fry and shrimplettes are just tasty snacks. If you’re trying to breed shrimp and guppies in a community tank. It’s almost impossible. Even guppies eat guppy fry. Everything eats shrimplettes. But usually they grow fast enough to get a good population going anyway. I had a balanced platy tank at one point. You end up with a few fry and all ages to adults. But not enough fry to sell. Going to be the same with your guppies. Whether the rasboras eat the fry or not. The guppies do. Lots of cover is the best option. Guppy grass, hornwort, water wisteria. 
 

if you have good hard water, mollies shouldn’t be an issue. For platys, you’ll want a showy variety that the box stores don’t have.