rydin4life Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I'm going to do a fish in cycle and was planning on using Seachem Prime with Seachem Stability. I was then advised to use Fritz Zyme 7 instead of Stability and warned that Prime would detoxify the ammonia so I shouldn't use it and instead should use something like Fritz Conolete or Stress Coat +. So now that I'm confused...what are rhe pros and cons of each amd simplest for a beginner? I may also be able to get some used filter sponges from a local shop. Would Prime or Complete be best with tbis method and would Stability or Zyme 7 be ok to add as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony s Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 8:20 PM, rydin4life said: Prime would detoxify the ammonia so I shouldn't use it Okay. That’s completely incorrect information. It should detoxify it. For your fish only. It’s still completely usable for the beneficial bacteria. And only use it every other day. It wears out after 2 days. On the label that way. But, really regular water changes is easier than constant chemicals. Anytime you see ammonia over 0.5 it’s time for a change. And of course you’d use prime to dechlorinate anyways. 0.5 ammonia is enough to grow your colony just fine. As for the bacteria, I use fritz, but Stability is perfectly acceptable. Especially if you already have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 In my experience with bottled bacteria....I saw far faster results using Fritzzyme 7 vs. Stability. Prime is an excellent product. I would try to do small waterchanges as a Plan A as you test and keep Prime as the dechlorinator, with the added bonus that is supposedly detoxifies ammonia for 48 hours. (Plan B). If you can get the brown, disgusting goodness from a squeezed out mature sponge filter in a ziploc bag....I think that would be the best plan. Just ensure it is from a healthy, disease-free tank. I'd dump the whole bag in your tank, and ensure good aeration. You may have a near instant cycle that way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I use API quick start and it works great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 A used sponge filter full of live beneficial bacteria would be your best product… or several cups of filter squeezings…. A good test kit and a python waterchange set up would be high on my list too…. And a quality dechlorinator such as Prime or Fritz complete… though my confidence in them is much heavier on removing chlorine, chloramines than in Ammonia Nitrite detoxification. I have zero confidence in any of the bacteria in a bottle products personally… having live fish in the tank you will have the. Pooping out excellent seeding material of beneficial bacteria….Far better seeding material in my estimation than any bacteria in a bottle products… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I would highly disagree. It’s better to use “bottled “ bacteria than to sacrifice fish. when I first started I used the “ bottled “ bacteria and my fish survived. My suggestion is to do your own research and do what is right for you @rydin4life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisnobody Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 @Fish finatic45 when I first started, I didn’t use anything and my fish survived. What’s that say about bacteria in a bottle? What @Pepere suggested is far superior to any product you can purchase. You can probably get a seeded sponge at any LFS for $10 or so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony s Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 9:56 PM, Fish finatic45 said: It’s better to use “bottled “ bacteria than to sacrifice fish That is true, but not mutually exclusive. There is actually nothing wrong with the fish-in cycle. But the safety is all in the attention given to it. Fish-in cycling is perfectly safe when the ammonia levels never exceed 0.5 ppm ammonia levels. It’s when we go over that it becomes damaging to the animals. I agree though, given a choice, fish-less is almost always more humane. Less chance for the new keeper to let it get away. better yet is an extra sponge filter run for a couple of weeks in an older tank. Then it and the cycle can be transferred to the new tank. Instant cycle. And most often an extra sponge fills the extra roll of providing extra oxygen anyway. Harder to do for a new keeper and a new tank. I actually do believe in the bottle. 40 years ago we used to used a dehydrated bacteria to treat lagoons with. You had to rehydrate with warm water before using. The way you could tell it worked, there was much less of a solid buildup over time. Bacteria surviving in a bottle really isn’t an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) On 8/26/2024 at 9:56 PM, Fish finatic45 said: It’s better to use “bottled “ bacteria than to sacrifice fish. Sure. If it does anything…. I have fishless cycled several tanks. I have used multiple brands and multiple doses on a tank that cycled no quicker than a tank without a single drop of bacteria in a bottle… 1/4 cup of potting soil from a plant pot that never dries out between watering will cycle a tank much faster… pour in filter squeezing even faster… Fish in cycle where you stock lightly, test daily water change as needed to keep ammonia and nitrite low is pretty quick too, safer if your ph is a bit acidic… Personally I prefer fishless cycling, but I still have no use for any of the bacteria in a bottle products. I have zero confidence in their ability to cycle a tank faster… I recognize plenty of other people hold different opinions on the products… Edited August 27 by Pepere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 I’m fairly new to the hobby. When I started my tank I just used the bottled bacteria so I could quickly cycle my tank and it worked. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I was just trying to give you some helpful advice. Have fun with the tank @rydin4life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony s Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 10:36 PM, Pepere said: 1/4 cup of potting soil from a plant pot that never dries out between watering will cycle a tank much faster You have me thinking now. I bet bean inoculent would work just fine as well. Has nitrosomonas and nitrobacter in it. On 8/26/2024 at 10:42 PM, Fish finatic45 said: veryone has their own way of doing things and I was just trying to give you some helpful advice. Have fun with the tank Could not agree with you more. Don’t sweat it. You’re good here. Sometimes we have strong opinions on things. There’s more than one way to cycle a tank. And a lot of us have screwed it up and had to finish with fish-in anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Yes. Exactly! Experimenting is what makes the hobby fun and I encourage everyone to try new things with their tanks. Even the newbie’s know that!🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepere Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 10:42 PM, Fish finatic45 said: ’m fairly new to the hobby. When I started my tank I just used the bottled bacteria so I could quickly cycle my tank and it worked. Everyone has their own way of doing things and I was just trying to give you some helpful advice If you fill a tank with water and a filter and an ammonia source, beneficial bacteria will eventually colonize it. Spores will find their way in…. My view is best that can happen by buying a bottle of bacteria in a bottle is that it could happen faster. The worse that can happen is you lighten your wallet with no benefit.. I never perceived any time saving benefit from using the products and I gave them multiple attempts, multi dosing multi brands… on the plus side it makes you feel like you are doing something…. Do I “know” they were worthless? No. Too many variables that were uncontrolled. I do “know” that any benefit received did not translate to a reasonable value for the money I spent on them…. There was no obvious time savings to me…. The most any of us can do is share our experiences so other people can consider them and what they might draw from them.. @Fish finatic45, your voice is a welcomed addition here. Don’t avoid sharing your experiences, there are indeed may methods that succeed in fishkeeping and plant horticulture…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOtrees Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 On 8/26/2024 at 8:36 PM, Tony s said: But, really regular water changes is easier than constant chemicals. This. Let's not forget this. Chemicals are a tool, but rarely a solution, or silver bullet. The person, and the knowledge and practices they employ, have far greater benefits, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lennie Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 (edited) Unless there is an emergency situation, with the options available in todays modern world with numerous products I cant see why would someone do a fish in cycle. especially as a beginner in the hobby, avoid it. It gives you no good and your fish “survive” the harm in the best scenario. Go for the fishless cycle and learn about the hobby while your tank is cycling. Patience is the key to this hobby. Any person who cannot be patient to do a fishless cycle will gradually fail in the hobby, because this is all it is about, being patient about learning reading waiting and all. I understand your excitement very much. We have all been there, still are. When I was cycling my first saltwater tank, it took even longer than fw! It was sooo exciting to wait but it made me learn so many things during this waiting period. Believe me, you won't regret it. Fixing a problem requires much more attention and work than choosing the safe way. Testing too much, too many water changes to try keeping readings low, and so on! Instead you can just setup your tank, put in ammonia and bottled bacteria, and instead do nothing basically until your levels read okay. Also saves you from lots of worrisome about your fishes health and tank condition. If you are even OK to wait longer, you don't even have to use bottled bacteria. As a beginner, last thing you would want is worry about your animal's health and potential issues/deaths. Enjoy your time reading and learning instead while your tank is full doing its thingy out there Edited August 27 by Lennie 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 @LennieI agree! Go fishless on any tank to start out with and use “bottled “ bacteria or used sponge filter It’s the best way to start a tank without using a fish to start a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rydin4life Posted August 27 Author Share Posted August 27 Thanks for all the input. If I go the route of using an established sponge from a trusted tank and put that in my HOB filter, is there a general rule of thumb for how long that should stay in there to establish bacteria on the new media (sponges and Seachem Matrix) in my filter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mynameisnobody Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Approx 30 days and you can consider it seeded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne 82nd Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Thanks for all the input. If I go the route of using an established sponge from a trusted tank and put that in my HOB filter, is there a general rule of thumb for how long that should stay in there to establish bacteria on the new media (sponges and Seachem Matrix) in my filter? Do you know how to keep said establish bacteria alive for 30 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airborne 82nd Posted August 27 Share Posted August 27 Has anyone who used the bottle of bacteria been able to prove that it is alive before dumping into your tank anyone? If so please share your testing method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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