Pao Baileyi (Hairy Puffer)

[MarcT]

Getting my first Pao Baileyi (Hairy Puffer) Juvenal .

But have been reading about others having success in breeding. So some simple first questions.

How do you go about getting a pair ?

Do you start with a group and see if any pair off ?

The one I ordered is Captive bred, He/She will be housed in a 55 gallon by itself. 

I am in no rush, and do understand that the longer this fish has the tank to itself, the less likely it is to except a tank mate. 

Any suggestions are appreciated,

Marct

[Colu]

Am going to tag @mountaintoppufferkeeper the most successful puffer breeders on the site 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

On 7/30/2024 at 11:25 PM, MarcT said:

Getting my first Pao Baileyi (Hairy Puffer) Juvenal .

But have been reading about others having success in breeding. So some simple first questions.

How do you go about getting a pair ?

Do you start with a group and see if any pair off ?

The one I ordered is Captive bred, He/She will be housed in a 55 gallon by itself. 

I am in no rush, and do understand that the longer this fish has the tank to itself, the less likely it is to except a tank mate. 

Any suggestions are appreciated,

Marct

Thanks @Colu @MarcT 

Congrats they are a great puffer species and one of my favorites. I can give my experiences with keeping hairy puffer colonies. With puffers "results may vary" but i always let the colony sort itself out. If you havent seen it amazonas magazine has a hairy puffer breeding article in its digital archlve. Its from years ago

I wrote about them for the dans fish newsletter:

https://dansfish.com/newsletter.2110

How do you go about getting a pair ? ... Do you start with a group and see if any pair off ?

When I bring in a puffer project I always get 3 to 6 of similar size and grow them up together. With hairys there are anecdotal reports that females have less beard ... im not convinced personally. I would look for variances in size and head shapes. 

Ive also never found it necessary to remove any from the colony when cave spawning pao puffers spawn. 

The one I ordered is Captive bred, He/She will be housed in a 55 gallon by itself... I am in no rush, and do understand that the longer this fish has the tank to itself, the less likely it is to except a tank mate. 

If I was going to add more puffers to a hairy colony later I would add 3 more at once and rearrange the tank so there was one more cave than hairy. 

They get a pretty bad reputation for aggression and udeservedly so in my opinion.

Some of my hairy puffer experiences:

the origional colony that proved to me puffer colonies were worth doing

Cave spawning....id do a flat-bottom slate-floor cave now

New cave set up. Male displaying for one of his females ....courtship in front of cave

Better video around cave ... the female is actually in his cave in this one. Pattern reversal in the paos is a spawning indicator here. 

WC juveniles dominance above submissive display below

Normally I'll get this in a hairy colony very relaxed and active. This was 4 WC the divider was briefly used to get the smaller 2 a little more food access and quicker size. Normal coloration

And just in general this was a palustris fry F1 .... in my experience this type of inflation is major stress ive only seen it once.  The rest shown here is just communication in one form or another. 

ive never had any of my 10 hairys kept in 2 colonys over the years bite eachother. Im sure it could happen i just have never seen it in them or any other pao species. 

[MarcT]

Great information, Love your setup. See you are using the Co-Op planters. I already added a few with Cripts. Smart ! Now I want to add more.

What size tank are you using ? 

I have two to choose from , A seasoned 55 gallon with soft sand, and a 30 gallon with soft sand but is in the cycle process at that moment.

The Juvenal I ordered will go into a season grow out tank until the other two tanks are ready. 

How about current flow ? Strong / Medium / or slow ? I am leaning toward medium.

 

Thanks

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Sorry about the delay I thought this reply posted @MarcT one standard puffer disclaimer I keep in mind is past performance does not guarentee future results 😁. A puffer could go rogue tomorrow, but this is based on my keeping a dozen adult hairys in different colony setups at this point. 

What size tank are you using ? 

I've done 5 setups for them :

A colony of 3 or 4 adults in a 40 breeder(36" x 18" x 16), a 50 gallon (36"x15"x20"), a 55 gallon (48" x 13" x 21), a 60 breeder(48.5" x 18.5" x 16), and a 75 gallon(48"x18"x20). That "puffercam" with the larger cave and the male displaying up in the water column is the 75 gallon tank. The three in the flow eating krill is in a 50 gallon.  I had good results in all. For me the baileyi are a very social puffer in a colony often they will sit together even in a larger tank.

I'm sure there are different personalities that could cause arguments but I have never personally seen any injury or intentional bite. I do base that belief off of 7 years plus with 12 hairys in 3 colonys in the three different tank sizes. 

My guess is a 30 should work for 2 or 3 but i havent tried it so can not say either way. Sight breaks generally make for good puffer roomates 

I prefer more caves than puffers and some line of site breaks in all the species I keep. More of a better to have a time out area and not need it than need it and not have it idea.

Hairys here have been a decent sized puffer when mature. Id guess TL closer to 6" long x 4" wide x 3.5" tall for my largest so far. 

Ive done sand and gravel they use both here without issues

How about current flow ? Strong / Medium / or slow ? I am leaning toward medium.

They do like flow in my opinion it is most used to set ambushes (cooperatively). Here all but one hairy will setup so the last could drive prey to their colony mates. Often those waiting would take chunks of food and place it just in front of them to hunt prey. 

They then rotate positions here so that everyone eats

Edited August 8 by mountaintoppufferkeeper

[MarcT]

Thanks, great information.

The 30 gallon being cycled, is set up to house one CB Juvenal about the size of a gum ball. I have Medium flow, soft sand and some river rock and drift wood. If I decide later to try a colony I will use a 55. 

I have some Almond leaves, do you think they would like tannins in the water? Your water looks very clear. 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

Nice. Ive never done almond leaves but i think they are fairly adaptable if you prefer it. I have done driftwood with them in some tanks the tannins certsinly didnt seem to hurt.

Hairys are more of a rocky bottom high flow puffer from the laos and cambodia sections of the mekong delta vs say pao palustris who are more northern thailand slow flowing sandy bottom planted areas. 

This is from the most recent field guides ive found for the mekong in years.  This photo and location note appears in both the Laos and the Cambodia mekong guides. It notes that baileyi occur in flowing water with a rocky bottom. I think generally they sit down into rock in nature and position to be ready to ambush. I would expect clear water for them as a result.

[MarcT]

Hello, here is a photo of the Future home for the Pao bailey . I have added a 3" Diameter and 2" Diameter flower pot to the Tank. I do want to make sure he has enough floor space to borrow into the sand. The flow looks good. 

Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

@MarcT I often add structure either under the flow or along it. I have never had any hairy burrow in my tanks; they are recorded 24/7 here and footage regularly reviewed.  That is not to say they wont and its possible that yours will do it often....because "puffers"

The more detailed experiences with hairy use of structure below 

My hairys have all enjoyed to sit on something and adjust their patterns slightly to better hide on that surface. In your photo I would expect below that powerhead would be a popular hairy puffer hangout. 

All of my hairys have only ever sat in/on plants, on rocks, usedpipes, caves, on wood, and on misc decor to blend.

None of my Pao bayilei have ever burrowed and, in my opinion, their body structure is more to camouflage on a hard surface like in fast flowing rocky bottom rivers than to burrow and ambush out of sand.

I have not yet raised hairy fry. That behavior may happen when younger. The hairy has a somewhat similar body shape to the congo puffer, Tetraodon miurus, which burrows all the time. 

T.Miurus (for comparison)

Normally they all sat down to the eyes like the one behind the feeding miurus. 

Here are the hairys and their general preferences for hanging out. 

vroup Free swimming or blending on wood and rock. (The flow is above the heater running forward to the camera)

Top of rock

Open swimming

driftwood ambush

Free swimming

here the flow is away from camera  they sit on sand surface blow filter

Flow is left to right all out on top of substrate

one out one in cave

 

This is real hairy puffer speed when not interested in effort. This is how fast we normally go once a colony is settled.

The Limia vittata culls are short term renting more than long term leasing here. If i add enough initially, my livebearer colonys tend to stabilize within a few weeks then start to grow again as the smartest ones adjust to the puffers and the puffers handle the maintainence of the livebearer numbers.

[MarcT]

Interesting, I will need to play with the flow and add a few more hides but I am on the right track. Thanks

Currently I have flow running with a brief pause simulating a wave action. Perhaps a slow steady flow would be more appreciated, but I like the wave action to introduce more oxogen to the water.

Happy to see you use culls, I was thinking of that. I have an abundance of guppies. Also was thinking of small live earthworms and frozen blood worms. Thoughts ? 

I added the flower pots, but will rearrange them Just wanted to see how they would look. I could spread the stones out if it does not really care for all that sand. I have extra river rock.

Thanks

 

 

[mountaintoppufferkeeper]

I think your set up looks awesome. They do seem to like flow here. I have not tried a wave maker with them personally. It is possible you could have a hairy that does like to bury ive just never seen it here.

My hairys dont get fed bloodworms but im sure they would eat them. The livebearer purpose is two fold 1 to clean up the puffer food bits and 2 to enrich the puffer in all the ways you would imagine

I feed earthworms up to big nightcrawlers to all the puffers pretty regularly and culls where appropriate. For frozen i rotate in all of these and all have vitachem and a little garlic guard: frozen tilapia strips, occasionally krill, frozen raw crayfish. The crayfish are mostly for the crossriver puffers and abei puffers but occasionally the hairys dabble for a change of pace. 

I have more success with short fin wild type livebearers working semi permanently. Limia vittata has been the best, variatus platy is 2nd. The limia are big and produce lots of fry. The vittata do not eat their own fry which helps. 

[MarcT]

Well, I have not received the Pao Baileyi as of yet. It should be arriving this week. So not sure of its size, that's why I was thinking blood worms. I have lots of baby guppies that should give it some exercise. But I will want to provide it with a healthy diet. I also have a tank full of red tailed Goodid. They are similar to your Limia vittata. They have large young that are not eaten. 

He will go into quarantine as this tank cycles. My guess is around September it should be ready. I do not like to introduce new fish to a tank until it starts to establish some algae growth . Water perimeters all look great for now, but its only been a week.

Wish I did get a group now. Oh well, maybe later.

I will keep you updated and provide photos once established.

Congratulations on those fry. That is so exciting !

Cheers

[MarcT]

Hello all,

Well my first Pao bayilei has been added to his new tank. Always seems hungry and quickly except (red wigglers) small earth worms. He/She is about 1.5 inch.

I am still working on getting my 55 gallon emptied of fish to start my first colony.

Very happy with my purchase and new project.