Another "cycling the tank" question

[Tony s]

Yeah. Not sure what I was expecting. Pickled guppies? Guppy bacon bits? 

On 6/17/2024 at 10:04 PM, TinaPax-Peeks said:

Or, adaptation to polluted conditions?

Life is surprisingly resilient. 

[daggaz]

I'd wager it has to do with their size and metabolic rate.  Tiny fry don't actually need a lot of oxygen, thus  they don't breathe much.  Decreased flow over the gills means decreased exposure to harmful molecules in the water column. 

Being able to see the paramecium you feed on has its upsides. 

They probably also have an insanely increased regenerative rate. 

On 6/18/2024 at 4:10 AM, Tony s said:

Life is surprisingly resilient. 

Life uhhh.. finds a way.

Edited June 18 by daggaz

[Tony s]

On 6/18/2024 at 12:52 AM, daggaz said:

Life uhhh.. finds a way.

I think I’ve heard that before 😂😂😂

but very true. Just have to look down deep at the chemosynthesis organisms 

[daggaz]

Yup. Can't wait for the first black-smoker aquascape. 

Anyhow, check out my new tank, can anybody tell me what this weird thing is? 

[Jeff]

On 6/16/2024 at 9:47 AM, daggaz said:

I'm surprised there's no section on cycling on the guides page. 

I would guess that it's because Cory doesn't really subscribe to cycling. And if they put a guide to it, more people would try it. He always promotes algae and plant growth before adding fish. 
 

There's a Co-Op video about it. 

Edited yesterday at 01:27 AM by Jeff

[TinaPax-Peeks]

On 6/18/2024 at 9:47 AM, Jeff said:

I would guess that it's because Cory doesn't really subscribe to cycling. And if they put a guide to it, more people would try it. He always promotes algae and plant growth. 
 

There's a Co-Op video about it. 

I haven't seen that video. I will search for it. 

I would say, prior to hearing his reasoning, that most newbie's aren't going to spend months growing algae and plants before stocking their first aquarium. I am surprised I have been able to hold my hubby back 3 weeks and counting. 3 months would just be too much.  The "time in a bottle" "add fish first day" potions sell false hope because that is what newbie's want to hear. I just happen to be a "research every angle from the beginning" kinda person which is a small minority of new aquarists. And, even with all the research, I don't want to wait 3 months before getting some fish.

[daggaz]

But spending a few months growing plants and algae IS a form of cycling. 

Edited June 18 by daggaz

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 6/18/2024 at 10:10 AM, TinaPax-Peeks said:

I haven't seen that video. I will search for it. 

I think this is the video @Jeff is referring to:

I definitely sympathize with how hard it is to delay adding fish to a tank, especially your first tank. It's even worse when you have family asking "you still don't have any fish in that tank?!"

[TinaPax-Peeks]

On 6/18/2024 at 10:51 AM, daggaz said:

But spending a few months growing plants and algae IS a form of cycling. 

True. It just requires more patience.

[TinaPax-Peeks]

On 6/18/2024 at 11:19 AM, Rube_Goldfish said:

I think this is the video @Jeff is referring to:

I definitely sympathize with how hard it is to delay adding fish to a tank, especially your first tank. It's even worse when you have family asking "you still don't have any fish in that tank?!"

Ah, yes, I had actually watched that video before. Rewatched for refresher because I have binge watched a poop ton of videos the last month!

Here are my rookie thoughts on what Cory talks about (FWIW).  Getting a tank to a point of being stable (seasoned) should be the goal. That point is healthy for the inhabitants of the tank and easier maintenance for the aquarist.  Getting to that point from ground zero is like doing a "couch to marathon finish line".  Just getting up, figuring out the right shoes, right train schedule, and starting to log the miles is a lot to process. Once in motion, it becomes easier to stay in motion.  The same for a brand new aquarist.  There are a lot of elements to figure out at first. 

Just like the couch-to-marathon training is easier with coaches and a group of couch potatoes to provide info and encouragement, this forum provides the same for couch-to-aquarium training.  I wonder if any other couch potatoes starting their first aquarium actually let it season for 6 months before stocking it?  Honestly, I won't wait that long. I will cycle it and begin the slow stocking process. I will monitor the chemistry closely... obsessively...until it is fully stocked and seasoned. 

Maybe my second tank will get more seasoned before it is stocked. (Yes, we are already discussing a second, larger, tank.) Or, perhaps the three will be the one I do correctly? 😉 

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:34 PM, TinaPax-Peeks said:

Ah, yes, I had actually watched that video before. Rewatched for refresher because I have binge watched a poop ton of videos the last month!

Here are my rookie thoughts on what Cory talks about (FWIW).  Getting a tank to a point of being stable (seasoned) should be the goal. That point is healthy for the inhabitants of the tank and easier maintenance for the aquarist.  Getting to that point from ground zero is like doing a "couch to marathon finish line".  Just getting up, figuring out the right shoes, right train schedule, and starting to log the miles is a lot to process. Once in motion, it becomes easier to stay in motion.  The same for a brand new aquarist.  There are a lot of elements to figure out at first. 

Just like the couch-to-marathon training is easier with coaches and a group of couch potatoes to provide info and encouragement, this forum provides the same for couch-to-aquarium training.  I wonder if any other couch potatoes starting their first aquarium actually let it season for 6 months before stocking it?  Honestly, I won't wait that long. I will cycle it and begin the slow stocking process. I will monitor the chemistry closely... obsessively...until it is fully stocked and seasoned. 

Maybe my second tank will get more seasoned before it is stocked. (Yes, we are already discussing a second, larger, tank.) Or, perhaps the three will be the one I do correctly? 😉 

I don't think you have to wait six months to introduce fish, though I will admit that tanks become more stable and "healthy" the longer they're running (old tank syndrome aside). It's probably safer, but I think it's safer in the same way that wearing a race car helmet in the minivan is safer. A fishless cycle is a lot slower but a lot safer, and I think you're closer than you might be thinking. Once you've got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrate, if you're comfortable testing and prepared to make water changes, and if you're increasing the stocking slowly, I think you'd be ready to add fish at that point.

Since you mentioned thinking about more tanks, I will say that I only ever went through the cycling process once, and Mrs. Goldfish and I are collectively at five tanks now. When you're ready to start up your second tank, get its filter running for a week or two on your first tank to season it, then stock the new one slowly (I think stocking increases should almost always be slow, to allow the biofilter to grow to accommodate). So Tank #2 should go from empty to (lightly) stocked with fish in, comparatively, no time.

[Tony s]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:34 PM, TinaPax-Peeks said:

Maybe my second tank will get more seasoned before it is stocked.

second tanks can get instantly cycled off the first. By the addition of a spare sponge filter transfer. you can transfer a cycle

You really can't purposefully season a tank, only cycle one. Seasoning takes time. and life. fish and mulm and crud and pest snails, and invertebrates. everything that goes into a tank. It all has to marinade and simmer like a good soup. and after a while it all comes together and becomes more than its parts. it becomes its own ecosystem

[TinaPax-Peeks]

On 6/18/2024 at 3:49 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

I don't think you have to wait six months to introduce fish, though I will admit that tanks become more stable and "healthy" the longer they're running (old tank syndrome aside). It's probably safer, but I think it's safer in the same way that wearing a race car helmet in the minivan is safer. A fishless cycle is a lot slower but a lot safer, and I think you're closer than you might be thinking. Once you've got 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and some nitrate, if you're comfortable testing and prepared to make water changes, and if you're increasing the stocking slowly, I think you'd be ready to add fish at that point.

I agree but from what I understand from Cory's video, he is suggesting seasoning a tank before stocking. I could have his timing mixed up.

But, I agree with what you have stated. I am close but still have nitrites (hit above 5 this morning and nitrates at 50. I did a partial water change this afternoon (25%). Once I get the nitrites to 0, stocking will begin!

[daggaz]

I cycled my tank in three weeks, fish in, no chemical additives or whatnot.  I used a lot of living cultures to get it going, no access to any old tank filter material but you dont need it because AOB and NOB are literally everywhere.  Then some fish died when it crashed for a number of reasons, some totally avoidable because im new, some because it just wasnt seasoned yet.  So I got it under control and got some more fish (and shrimp!) and it is very smooth sailing so far.  I'm at a five and a half weeks, now.  There's two hillstream loaches, three siamese algae eaters, 20 CPD's, 1 chilli rasbora (what a champ, he's worth like a hundred bucks now -RIP all his friends), 12 cherry shrimp, two extremely active amaro, one nerite snail, and five glass catfish at the moment, and a ton of plants.   Ammonia, nitrite is under the radar, nitrate is around 5 to 10 ppm even tho I am dosing fert twice a week.  pH completely stable.  I'll probably buy a bunch more parameter tests, just to scratch my chemistry itch, but honestly my fish and shrimp are thriving, my plants are growing, and the water is crystal clear.  

The next tank, I doubt I will season it per se, but I will definitely start with a fishless "dry" cycle to get some carpet plants well established, then let it go wild and get some shrimp and snails going before I start adding fish.  This hobby is addictive.  I can understand why people end up owning aquarium shops.  

Edited June 18 by daggaz

[Jeff]

Cory explains 6 months as - your tank should be rock solid from the last change you made. He also did say he was looking forward to 6 months after he recently moved his 800g....aka the tank should be able to handle most things by then. 
 

With that said, you don't need to wait 6 months after setting up an aquarium. It doesn't take that long to start seeing growth in plants and algae. 6 months is a good baseline if someone was curious; and wanted an amount of time. 
 

What's the secret sauce? Every tank is different, and you can skin a cat a million diff ways in this hobby. Just take things slowly, and you should have success. You DO have to know what the nitrogen cycle is...and base things off of that. There's no way around it. It's the foundation of every fish tank - saltwater and fresh. 
 

By the same token, I don't understand the rush to hurry up and put fish in. This hobby is a marathon, why rush things from the start? But, that's just me. 

Edited June 19 by Jeff