Serpae Tetra's Keep dying?

[Mercfh]

So im not sure if this is just a problem specific with this species, or something im doing. First of all water params:

Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate all at 0 (well nitrate at maybe 20). I did hit an initial .25 nitrite "spike" when I added the 6 serpae tetras (to replace what I had lost before (4 of them) but other than that water quality is good (pH sits about at 7.6-7.8ish with kh 5 and dh 10 degrees)

I noticed originally of the 6 I had purchased that it seems like 1 would die off a day after every water change. Now I will admit during this time Nitrite was still a little bit elevated at around 1ppm+ish. I was dosing prime but I think that's what took out the initial 3-4 of them.

However I learned from that and waited until nitrites were zero and I was getting nitrates (so about 2 weeks after). So I purchased 6 (making a total of 8 of them) and one has already died (Again, a day after a water change but im only doing 20% water changes and making sure I dose dechlorinator for the full tank volume each time so it can't be a chlorine problem). I also make sure the temp is "close-ish" so the temp may only drop a degree after the water change. 

My only initial thought is that my pH out of my tap is high (around 8.2) but it drops after awhile and it mixes with the more normal ph so I can't imagine that's it.

Is this species maybe just sort of "weak"? I mean maybe it died from just stress coming from the fish store (I did the float for 30 minutes thing but the LFS store water is very similar to mine anyways). The ones that "made" it from the initial batch seem fine and I've not had any problems with ANY of the other fish in the tank (Raphaels/Corys/Loaches and Pleco's and a few neon tetras).

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Pepere]

I don’t know if the species themselves are weak, but the ones I bought at Petco were weak as heck.  First batch of 6 one survived 6 week quarantine and quarantine meds.  Second batch of 6 saw50% mortality..  I wanted a school of 12.  It took a while.  Best batch I bought was 25% mortality…

 

And I have had several batches of fish I bought see 100% survival through quarantine…

 

of the ones that survived quarantine, none have died since..

I have dedicated, very well cycled quarantine/hospital tanks.

[Tlindsey]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:47 PM, Mercfh said:

So im not sure if this is just a problem specific with this species, or something im doing. First of all water params:

Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate all at 0 (well nitrate at maybe 20). I did hit an initial .25 nitrite "spike" when I added the 6 serpae tetras (to replace what I had lost before (4 of them) but other than that water quality is good (pH sits about at 7.6-7.8ish with kh 5 and dh 10 degrees)

I noticed originally of the 6 I had purchased that it seems like 1 would die off a day after every water change. Now I will admit during this time Nitrite was still a little bit elevated at around 1ppm+ish. I was dosing prime but I think that's what took out the initial 3-4 of them.

However I learned from that and waited until nitrites were zero and I was getting nitrates (so about 2 weeks after). So I purchased 6 (making a total of 8 of them) and one has already died (Again, a day after a water change but im only doing 20% water changes and making sure I dose dechlorinator for the full tank volume each time so it can't be a chlorine problem). I also make sure the temp is "close-ish" so the temp may only drop a degree after the water change. 

My only initial thought is that my pH out of my tap is high (around 8.2) but it drops after awhile and it mixes with the more normal ph so I can't imagine that's it.

Is this species maybe just sort of "weak"? I mean maybe it died from just stress coming from the fish store (I did the float for 30 minutes thing but the LFS store water is very similar to mine anyways). The ones that "made" it from the initial batch seem fine and I've not had any problems with ANY of the other fish in the tank (Raphaels/Corys/Loaches and Pleco's and a few neon tetras).

 

Thanks!

 

 

@Mercfh I suggest purchasing the Serpae Tetra from a reputable lfs or online vendor.  like @Pepere stated a big box store like Petco, and Petsmart fish are likely to be under nourished or ill. There filtration systems are connected to most of the aquariums. 

[jwcarlson]

I'm not saying this could be causing it (especially at only 20% water changes), but it might be a factor... if the water comes out of the tap at 8.2 pH, what does it "age" to?  You can do this by putting some tap water in a jar with an airstone and then measuring the pH after you let it bubble away overnight or eight hours or so.  If there's a significant shift, it could be causing some water change relate stress.  

How often are you doing water changes?

[Pepere]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:29 AM, Tlindsey said:

There filtration systems are connected to most of the aquariums. 

I cant speak to all stores in the franchise, but at my local Petco, the aquariums are vertically integrated with a sump.   Each bay is isolated from each other.  Ie, each stack of 3 tanks are on the same sump.

 

The local Petco also receives fish on Thursday and sells them as soon as they are released.  By Saturday there are slim pickings…. As such if you buy them on Thursday evening, they had just been shipped and subject to that stress and comingling, and now they are netted and transported to another tank…

That having been said, I have had batches of fish from local Petco make it through quarantine and meds with 100% survival,  but Serpae Tetra was always rough….

[Tanked]

On 2/5/2024 at 2:47 PM, Mercfh said:

Is this species maybe just sort of "weak"? I mean maybe it died from just stress coming from the fish store (I did the float for 30 minutes thing but the LFS store water is very similar to mine anyways). The ones that "made" it from the initial batch seem fine and I've not had any problems with ANY of the other fish in the tank (Raphaels/Corys/Loaches and Pleco's and a few neon tetras).

If some of the new fish and all of the old fish are surviving, I would think that the problem is at the LFS.  I hope you are asking for refunds.

 

On 2/5/2024 at 2:47 PM, Mercfh said:

20% water changes and making sure I dose dechlorinator for the full tank volume

Alternatively, If the fish are already weakened due to stress,  It is possible to overdose Prime and other conditioners.  I would follow label instructions.  Prime is considered safe up to 5x the dose, but if the fish are already in trouble, or your math is off...

[Mercfh]

On 2/6/2024 at 8:50 AM, jwcarlson said:

I'm not saying this could be causing it (especially at only 20% water changes), but it might be a factor... if the water comes out of the tap at 8.2 pH, what does it "age" to?  You can do this by putting some tap water in a jar with an airstone and then measuring the pH after you let it bubble away overnight or eight hours or so.  If there's a significant shift, it could be causing some water change relate stress.  

How often are you doing water changes?

It starts at 8.2 and ages to about 7.6-7.8, so not THAT much. And I just don't see how pH dropping maybe .1 when I water change could possibly kill them. Thing is the "latest survivors" seem fine. The LFS I go to has a really good reputation and everything else i've gotten has done great 🤷‍♂️

FWIW On the Prime thing, thats pretty common from what i've heard especially people doing python water changes. I mean technically the extra could reduce the oxygen but i've got a lot of airstones + turbulance on the water surface o2 should be fine. I do water changes 1x a week.

[jwcarlson]

I agree, that doesn't seem like that pH shift would cause an issue.