Two Tanks with Two Problems; Algae, Diatoms, Dying Plants

[NanoRain]

I have a 10 gallon and 5.5 gallon tank. The 10 gallon is home to a betta nerite snail, and the 5.5 gallon currently has nothing but a few plants.

Both tanks have been set up for a minimum of 6 months, but the 10 gallon going since about a year.

In the 5.5 gallon I have diatoms. Everywhere on everything, so thick sometimes I can't even see into the tank. I do water changes weekly, about probably 20%. The tank is cycled. It's been cycled for months. The parameters are normal, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites and 0 nitrates. Everything I've read about diatoms is that they will go away after the tank is established. They will not go away. I added some phosguard and purigen to the bettaflo filter (I also have a small sponge filter going to help with water agitation since the filter flow on the bettaflo is very minimal), but it hasn't helped at all. I have a crested java fern and a couple rosette swords (the swords are not rooting for some reason, even though it's been a few months since they were added) planted in the tank, as well as frogbit, salvinia, and duckweed floating at the top. The plants don't see to be rooting, I use fluval stratum substrate, and I dose weekly with about a half pumps worth of easy green fertilizer. The frogbit's roots in this tank grow insanely fast. In about a week, some of the roots grow to a foot long, and do it again the next week after I've trimmed them very short. But all of the floaters look really healthy and grow very fast. They are on a light timer for about 6 hours a day, medium light. When I do water changes, I just use a small airline tube so I can directly suck out as much of the diatoms as I can, it takes like an hour. I have been refilling the tank with distilled water because I don't have an RO filter, and the tap water here is high in phosphate.

In the 10 gallon my plants are struggling to grow and live and thrive. I've got several rosette swords, an amazon sword, a few small mystery plants, and an anubias. I've tried green cabomba and pogostemon stellatus in the tank, but they died within a month or two of being in the tank. I do about 10-20% water changes weekly-- I siphon out the old water into a bucket, take a sponge and wipe down algae from the sides of the tank, and then take a toothbrush to try and brush the algae off of the plant leaves because there is a green algae that is constantly coating all of the leaves in the tank, some worse than others (it was really bad on the cabomba and pogo). The plants are rooted nicely. However, the floaters in this tank are doing worse than the ones in my 5.5 gallon. The roots don't hardly grow at all, and they seem to brown and die really fast, as well as develop holes on the leaves. Both the tanks have lids, but as the 5.5 gallon isn't bothered by this I don't see why that would affect the ones in the 10 gallon, unless the condensation is different on the lid for that and drips more? I never notice a lot of condensation on the top of the lid. I dose about 1 pump one to two times a week of easy green. I also have a sponge filter with a compartment for phosguard and purigen. The light timer for this one is more advanced so I have it set up to mimic natural light, but it's also only on for about 6-7 hours a day, medium-high light.
 

I'm very frustrated because I want to really make these tanks look nice, but I feel too defeated between the algae, diatoms, and dying plants, to bother with it and have on many occasions thought of selling both tanks, my fish, and all of my supplies and it's only the sunk cost fallacy that has stopped me, but I dread to think I could need to spend hundreds of dollars more attempting other ways to resolve these issues, only to have them fail as well. Any knowledge and advice would be appreciated, happy to answer any questions.

[Whitecloud09]

@NanoRainthe distilled water is your only option I see but it might be anissue but not certain…get some merits snail in the 5.5 like 3 or so and they will clean that up good. Do you siphon your gravel?

Nerite not merits 😅

[NanoRain]

On 1/28/2024 at 8:05 PM, Bigdog99 said:

@NanoRainthe distilled water is your only option I see but it might be anissue but not certain…get some merits snail in the 5.5 like 3 or so and they will clean that up good. Do you siphon your gravel?

Nerite not merits 😅

I vacuum it in the 5.5 gallon because the top layer of gravel is basically all diatoms, so I try to get the diatoms off. I used to vacuum the gravel in the 10 gallon, but apparently in a planted tank that's not necessary since it's supposed to act as fertilizer. For some reason I thought very few creatures had any interest in eating diatoms, but I'll get some more nerites and see if that helps at all. There's just so many diatoms I don't think even 20 nerites could eat it all before it grows back haha. Thanks

[Whitecloud09]

On 1/28/2024 at 8:20 PM, NanoRain said:

I vacuum it in the 5.5 gallon because the top layer of gravel is basically all diatoms, so I try to get the diatoms off. I used to vacuum the gravel in the 10 gallon, but apparently in a planted tank that's not necessary since it's supposed to act as fertilizer. For some reason I thought very few creatures had any interest in eating diatoms, but I'll get some more nerites and see if that helps at all. There's just so many diatoms I don't think even 20 nerites could eat it all before it grows back haha. Thanks

😂 yeah some say u can get 10 or so but I personally would not like that! They love diatoms and you don’t have to feed them anything with all that algae.

[NanoRain]

Anyone have any advice regarding what I could do to save the plants in my 10 gallon? Or what's causing the obscene amount of diatoms in my 5.5?

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/29/2024 at 3:06 PM, NanoRain said:

Anyone have any advice regarding what I could do to save the plants in my 10 gallon? Or what's causing the obscene amount of diatoms in my 5.5?

Diving into things now and I think there is some techniques we can do to help.  For future reading, I have an algae thread (years of struggles) and compiling all of that experience into a few posts.

That being said, what is your lighting situation on each tank?  What lights, intensity settings?

For each tank, what is your GH and KH testing results?

On 1/28/2024 at 4:42 PM, NanoRain said:

hey are on a light timer for about 6 hours a day, medium light.

 

On 1/28/2024 at 4:42 PM, NanoRain said:

The light timer for this one is more advanced so I have it set up to mimic natural light, but it's also only on for about 6-7 hours a day, medium-high light.

 

Edited January 29 by nabokovfan87

[Whitecloud09]

Also, @NanoRain,the 5 gallon is going through a thing that happens to most aquariums. It can be bad too

[NanoRain]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:28 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Diving into things now and I think there is some techniques we can do to help.  For future reading, I have an algae thread (years of struggles) and compiling all of that experience into a few posts.

That being said, what is your lighting situation on each tank?  What lights, intensity settings?

For each tank, what is your GH and KH testing results?

 

 

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate any help you can offer!

For the 10 gallon:
KH 53.7ppm GH 196.9ppm
I'm using the Water Rebirth Aquarium lights fish tank light Switch Version 18-24" with the Nicrew single channel LED light Timer Pro.... etc. 
The light is set to start at 20 brightness at 9am, and reach 65 by noon, and go back to 20 by 3:30 and 0 by 4pm. So I guess I don't have it set as bright as I thought for most of the day, but I have no idea how to know how bright it should be.

The 5.5 gallon:
KH 35.8ppm GH 107.4ppm
Hygger 9w Full Spectrum Aquarium Light with Aluminum Alloy Shell....white blue red LEDs. This one I can't buy a light timer for because it just doesn't work with one I think, so I turn it on manually and it does go off after 6 hours, but it only dims so then I have to turn it off myself. It also doesn't tell me how bright exactly it is, but I have it set to one of the medium light levels, not fully bright but not dark.

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/29/2024 at 4:22 PM, NanoRain said:

For the 10 gallon:
KH 53.7ppm GH 196.9ppm
I'm using the Water Rebirth Aquarium lights fish tank light Switch Version 18-24" with the Nicrew single channel LED light Timer Pro.... etc. 
The light is set to start at 20 brightness at 9am, and reach 65 by noon, and go back to 20 by 3:30 and 0 by 4pm. So I guess I don't have it set as bright as I thought for most of the day, but I have no idea how to know how bright it should be.

The 5.5 gallon:
KH 35.8ppm GH 107.4ppm
Hygger 9w Full Spectrum Aquarium Light with Aluminum Alloy Shell....white blue red LEDs. This one I can't buy a light timer for because it just doesn't work with one I think, so I turn it on manually and it does go off after 6 hours, but it only dims so then I have to turn it off myself. It also doesn't tell me how bright exactly it is, but I have it set to one of the medium light levels, not fully bright but not dark.

KH/GH on the 10G is good and seems to be doing fine.  The 5.5g the KH is slighly low, but it's within range.  Water changes to maintain the KH, basically is how I would think you can handle that long term.

Right now I would purely focus on cleaning filtration, siphoning the substrate, cleaning the glass, and weekly water changes.  Keep the water clean, charge up the stratum substrate, and just make sure that things are able to develop and do their thing.  It can take ~1 month for the substrate to really settle in and stop releasing things like ammonia or excess organics, and it would just speak to things like brown diatoms developing in either situation.  Use a toothbrush where you need to clean rocks, then let things settle and do your siphon + water change.  Manage things completely through manual removal right now.  It's a bit of a pain, but it's just that stage you're at.  George Farmer has some great videos on doing tank maintenance and it's a bit relaxing or therapeutic if you need something to help pass the time when cleaning.

Now, the real crux of everything is how do we get the plants growing appropriately and are there any things that you can do to help manage the issues and boost up the plants.  Pinholes, rotting leaves, deterioration is going to point to either planting issues, fert issues, or acclimation on the plants.  So if we look at some of the plants we can get an idea of what might be going on in some cases compared to others.

 

 

On 1/28/2024 at 4:42 PM, NanoRain said:

The swords often have some melting issues, but they do love light also.  Big broad leaves usually means a low / medium light is best.  The front plant on the left you can see it's shaded out and the front row of the tank is pretty dark / no light.  This happens with the little black hinge on the lids cutting the light, so placement of plants matters here.  I would avoid that front 1" of the substrate given everything you're seeing with just shadows and the light you have.  If you can drop the light lower and against the lid, it might help resolve some of those sorts of issues.  It's counter intuitive, but adding 2-3 root tabs (or just tabbing the tank where plants are wouldn't be a bad idea either.   The substrate seems a little thin, I usually like 3" as a minimum, 2.5" as a bare minimum, but having 4-6" is about the norm sometimes.   That alone could help the plants to root and get their nutrients flowing a little better.  Just a note there as well.

So for this tank, I would adjust placement on certain plants, try to tweak the light placement, and then just make sure that things like the substrate is good long term for you.

 

On 1/29/2024 at 4:22 PM, NanoRain said:

KH 53.7ppm GH 196.9ppm
I'm using the Water Rebirth Aquarium lights fish tank light Switch Version 18-24" with the Nicrew single channel LED light Timer Pro.... etc. 
The light is set to start at 20 brightness at 9am, and reach 65 by noon, and go back to 20 by 3:30 and 0 by 4pm. So I guess I don't have it set as bright as I thought for most of the day, but I have no idea how to know how bright it should be.

I would say light at about 40% is good, then 60% or so as your peak for about 6 hours per day. 1.5 hour sunrise/sunset is good, if you can do that.  Adjusting placement is going to help here, but the tank mentioned in your comments might not be as bright as you had initially thought.  You'll make the adjustment, focus on cleaning things, and *hopefully* you see new growth happen asap.

 

 

On 1/28/2024 at 4:42 PM, NanoRain said:

This tank, especially with that KH indication, just tells me that it's not charged up and the soil is leeching.  Manual removal as mentioned and using a brust for all the little detail work that you need to do.  Keep on top of it, water changes are your friend to keep the KH high and removing excess organics from the substrate.  All of the chemical filtration you mentioned is helpful, but water changes are a lot more effective at this stage.  Normally people recommend things like daily 50-80% water changes week 1, every other day week 2, to get the substrate setup long term.  The thickness is a lot better here, so the plants can really root and start to thrive. 

Again, just try to keep that front 1" of the tank clear of plants and try to get the plants in the right spots for what sort of light they need.  The middle, center of the light is going to be the most intense spot, brightest spot on the tank.  Try to keep the floaters from blocking the light, especially having a lower power light on this tank.  keep it to about 40-60% or less on the coverage of the water surface.  Being able to turn off the blue channel here might be helpful, but I am unsure if it's possible.  Check out some of the nicrew planted lights in future if you look to upgrade this one.  There's a lot of options, so it just really depends on how things happen over time and what you're noticing.

 

On 1/28/2024 at 4:42 PM, NanoRain said:

I do about 10-20% water changes weekly

Stick to 30-50% water changes if you can. 

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php



This is a good tool to give you an idea of how much water you're actually swapping out and things building up over time.

 

[NanoRain]

On 1/29/2024 at 8:25 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

KH/GH on the 10G is good and seems to be doing fine.  The 5.5g the KH is slighly low, but it's within range.  Water changes to maintain the KH, basically is how I would think you can handle that long term.

Right now I would purely focus on cleaning filtration, siphoning the substrate, cleaning the glass, and weekly water changes.  Keep the water clean, charge up the stratum substrate, and just make sure that things are able to develop and do their thing.  It can take ~1 month for the substrate to really settle in and stop releasing things like ammonia or excess organics, and it would just speak to things like brown diatoms developing in either situation.  Use a toothbrush where you need to clean rocks, then let things settle and do your siphon + water change.  Manage things completely through manual removal right now.  It's a bit of a pain, but it's just that stage you're at.  George Farmer has some great videos on doing tank maintenance and it's a bit relaxing or therapeutic if you need something to help pass the time when cleaning.

Now, the real crux of everything is how do we get the plants growing appropriately and are there any things that you can do to help manage the issues and boost up the plants.  Pinholes, rotting leaves, deterioration is going to point to either planting issues, fert issues, or acclimation on the plants.  So if we look at some of the plants we can get an idea of what might be going on in some cases compared to others.

 

 

The swords often have some melting issues, but they do love light also.  Big broad leaves usually means a low / medium light is best.  The front plant on the left you can see it's shaded out and the front row of the tank is pretty dark / no light.  This happens with the little black hinge on the lids cutting the light, so placement of plants matters here.  I would avoid that front 1" of the substrate given everything you're seeing with just shadows and the light you have.  If you can drop the light lower and against the lid, it might help resolve some of those sorts of issues.  It's counter intuitive, but adding 2-3 root tabs (or just tabbing the tank where plants are wouldn't be a bad idea either.   The substrate seems a little thin, I usually like 3" as a minimum, 2.5" as a bare minimum, but having 4-6" is about the norm sometimes.   That alone could help the plants to root and get their nutrients flowing a little better.  Just a note there as well.

So for this tank, I would adjust placement on certain plants, try to tweak the light placement, and then just make sure that things like the substrate is good long term for you.

 

I would say light at about 40% is good, then 60% or so as your peak for about 6 hours per day. 1.5 hour sunrise/sunset is good, if you can do that.  Adjusting placement is going to help here, but the tank mentioned in your comments might not be as bright as you had initially thought.  You'll make the adjustment, focus on cleaning things, and *hopefully* you see new growth happen asap.

 

 

This tank, especially with that KH indication, just tells me that it's not charged up and the soil is leeching.  Manual removal as mentioned and using a brust for all the little detail work that you need to do.  Keep on top of it, water changes are your friend to keep the KH high and removing excess organics from the substrate.  All of the chemical filtration you mentioned is helpful, but water changes are a lot more effective at this stage.  Normally people recommend things like daily 50-80% water changes week 1, every other day week 2, to get the substrate setup long term.  The thickness is a lot better here, so the plants can really root and start to thrive. 

Again, just try to keep that front 1" of the tank clear of plants and try to get the plants in the right spots for what sort of light they need.  The middle, center of the light is going to be the most intense spot, brightest spot on the tank.  Try to keep the floaters from blocking the light, especially having a lower power light on this tank.  keep it to about 40-60% or less on the coverage of the water surface.  Being able to turn off the blue channel here might be helpful, but I am unsure if it's possible.  Check out some of the nicrew planted lights in future if you look to upgrade this one.  There's a lot of options, so it just really depends on how things happen over time and what you're noticing.

 

Stick to 30-50% water changes if you can. 

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/EffectiveWaterChange.php



This is a good tool to give you an idea of how much water you're actually swapping out and things building up over time.

 

Thank you so much for all the advice! There's definitely a few things I didn't know that are super helpful. I'll try to make adjustments accordingly. The only issue is that it's not feasible for me to buy dozens and dozens of jugs of distilled water frequently for much larger water changes-- do you think if I switch back to tap water or supplement with tap water it'll pose a huge issue?

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/29/2024 at 6:11 PM, NanoRain said:

The only issue is that it's not feasible for me to buy dozens and dozens of jugs of distilled water frequently for much larger water changes-- do you think if I switch back to tap water or supplement with tap water it'll pose a huge issue?

Likely yes. Go ahead and test your water from the tap and let us know what you're working with.

[BuzzDaddy21]

I`m curious to know if your substrate is just laying on the bottom on the glass.