Blue Rams

[BIRD0887]

So i may have inadvernantly created a major problem...last wk i had to move my clawed from to a 10 gal and began feeding him half worms, and now temp there r 2 rams in the tank. Well they werent acting right n it turned out to be the ammonia level...ive treated n changed part of the water but i stirred up the gravel and the tank is so full of worm pieces!! I know thats why the ammonia is spiking, and i jst need the rams to survive for a wk til i put them in there new home...any advice to combat ammonia??

[Tony s]

Clean the worm pieces out first thing by siphoning. Then massive water change.  Maybe up to 80%. Use seachem prime for dechlorinator, it can help with excess nitrogen. If you’ve got another place to put frog, even a bucket with an airstone, I’d find him another home. Then temps up to 82-86 for ram comfort. If you’re still having ammonia you’re going to need to clean again and more massive water changes until it’s gone.  Check again in the same day. Rams like pristine water conditions. 

[NOLANANO]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:39 AM, BIRD0887 said:

So i may have inadvernantly created a major problem...last wk i had to move my clawed from to a 10 gal and began feeding him half worms, and now temp there r 2 rams in the tank. Well they werent acting right n it turned out to be the ammonia level...ive treated n changed part of the water but i stirred up the gravel and the tank is so full of worm pieces!! I know thats why the ammonia is spiking, and i jst need the rams to survive for a wk til i put them in there new home...any advice to combat ammonia??

How are the rams acting? I my experience they don't do well with any type of water impurity. Even if you have zero nitrites and Ammonia, just having Nitrates above like 10 ppm will make them struggle. I almost gave up on Rams because the first 3 times I tried them they died within 48 hours.  I couldn't get them to stay alive for a prolonged period until I got faster growing stem plants and some floaters. 

Try the massive water change suggested and remove the worm debris and hope for the best. I'd highly suggest getting some plants if you want to keep rams. Also try to keep the water at 80+ degrees. Warmer is better.

Edited January 25 by NOLANANO

[Tony s]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:43 AM, NOLANANO said:

How are the rams acting? I my experience they don't do well with any type of water impurity. Even if you have zero nitrites and Ammonia, just having Nitrates above like 10 ppm will make them struggle. I almost gave up on Rams because the first 3 times I tried them they died within 48 hours.  I couldn't get them to stay alive for a prolonged period until I got faster growing stem plants and some floaters. 

Try the massive water change suggested and remove the worm debris and hope for the best. I'd highly suggest getting some plants if you want to keep rams. Also try to keep the water at 80+ degrees. Warmer is better.

Did you ever succeed with them? I’ve failed twice now, not sure what I’m doing wrong. They were shipped in, so maybe too much stress. My wife wants discus, I am so not doing discus until I can successfully keep rams.  Have used dwarf sag, swords and hornwort in tank for them. Rams are just so finicky.

[BIRD0887]

So i can tell they werent acting right, so i tested n ammonia was rly high but the other levels were good...so i treated w an ammonia remover and not even an hr later they r active n moving around. They r just the most beautiful fish so i had to try...i am going to do the gravel vac an water change and i have to leave the frog for now, im jst gonna stop feeding the worm

Oh and i have 3 java ferns in the tank

[Tony s]

Java ferns are good, but slow growers. Slow growers also remove nitrates slowly. Floating hornwort is a rapid grower and destroys nitrates quickly. Grows in most light conditions. Does look a bit unkempt. But easy to care for. Get too much just pull apart and toss. Or really anything that’s a faster grower would work. Even duckweed would work 

[Tlindsey]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:39 AM, BIRD0887 said:

So i may have inadvernantly created a major problem...last wk i had to move my clawed from to a 10 gal and began feeding him half worms, and now temp there r 2 rams in the tank. Well they werent acting right n it turned out to be the ammonia level...ive treated n changed part of the water but i stirred up the gravel and the tank is so full of worm pieces!! I know thats why the ammonia is spiking, and i jst need the rams to survive for a wk til i put them in there new home...any advice to combat ammonia??

I would remove the clawed frog and place in a tote. It's the biggest contributor to the bioload with the feeding of the worms.

[jwcarlson]

50% water changes twice a day in a 10 gallon tank is easy to do.  Tough to let anything build up to the point of causing an issue when you're doing that.  That's what I would suggest.

[BIRD0887]

So ive observed the one ram being rather mean to the other one, is that a male female thing? I did a 60 water change n gravel vac. im done feeding the clawed frog worms until he has his own 10 gal next wk,.

[Tony s]

Okay, keep a watch on all of ammonia, nitrates and nitrites. Ammonia and nitrites are poisonous. Rams have little tolerance of nitrates. 

Edited January 25 by Tony s

[NOLANANO]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:50 AM, Tony s said:

Did you ever succeed with them? I’ve failed twice now, not sure what I’m doing wrong. They were shipped in, so maybe too much stress. My wife wants discus, I am so not doing discus until I can successfully keep rams.  Have used dwarf sag, swords and hornwort in tank for them. Rams are just so finicky.

Yes and no. I have a heavily planted 75G tank I do get them to live and flouish and some even breed (though no babies make it to adulthood) BUT they all usually die iwthin 6 months for no explainable reason. They just start breathing heavy one day and die within a week. Or they just get skinny over time and die one day.  I have done a ton of research on it and it seems to be one of 4 reasons but I can't know for sure:

1) The species is genetically weak due to inbreeding for better colors.

2) The fish are given hormones when they are fry to make their colors pop in the fish store but it also shortens their lifespan.

3) The fish only live for 2-3 years and may not be sold until they are a year or a year and a half because their colors may not fully come in until then. In this scenario the fish live a full life but I only get to keep them for the final 6 months.

4) I read on one blog that they are really susceptible to internal parasites and that blood worms (and most other worms too) tend to carry internal parasites due to how they are farmed. 

For my last batch of GBRs, I never fed them blood worms and while 5 of the 6 did die within 6 months, I have one gold Ram that's almost a year old. He is the sole ram in my tank at the moment.  4 of the other 5 died (I think) because I had a large male that was the tank boss and he stressed them out leading to them not eating as much and eventually perishing. I think the large male was sone of those hormone fish because he was the largest Ram I have ever owned and his colors were nuts. I think his life span was shortened due to that.  The one gold ram I have just figured out how to work the system and outlasted the bully.

As far as plants, get any type of floating plant or some kind of fast growing stem plant. Bacopa Caroliniana (Not sure if that spelled correctly) is super hardy and works great. You want plants that feed through the water column more than are root feeders.   

Another trick I learned is don't acclimate them for too long because they are stressed in the bag or in a bucket and once their stress levels hit a certain point, there is no return.  I float them for 15-20 minutes and then drop them in. The idea being that any stress they have due to differing water conditions is less than the stress they will feel in the bag. Plus the bag is probably full of ammonia if they are shipped so opening the bag makes that water toxic. Keep the bag sealed, float, and then drop them in.  I used to lose around 25% of my fish upon introduction when I did drip method or the cup full of water method of acclimating. Since switching to plop and drop, I have never lost a fish on introduction.

Some pics of my rams:

Edited January 25 by NOLANANO

[jwcarlson]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:01 PM, BIRD0887 said:

So ive observed the one ram being rather mean to the other one, is that a male female thing? 

That's a cichlid thing, friend. 🙂

[NOLANANO]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:01 PM, BIRD0887 said:

So ive observed the one ram being rather mean to the other one, is that a male female thing? I did a 60 water change n gravel vac. im done feeding the clawed frog worms until he has his own 10 gal next wk,.

Definitely a cichlid thing like @jwcarlson said. If you have a male and female, they might pair up and then the aggression will cease. If they don't pair and you have a larger tank for them than a 10G, you could get a second female to spread the aggression.

If you have 2 males then they will always beef somewhat. If they are similar in size and aggression, they will divide the tank into territories and only battle if one comes too close to the territorial line. If one is more aggressive, he will claim the whole tank and the sub dominant male will be on the run/hiding.

[jwcarlson]

On 1/25/2024 at 2:29 PM, NOLANANO said:

Definitely a cichlid thing like @jwcarlson said. If you have a male and female, they might pair up and then the aggression will cease. If they don't pair and you have a larger tank for them than a 10G, you could get a second female to spread the aggression.

If you have 2 males then they will always beef somewhat. If they are similar in size and aggression, they will divide the tank into territories and only battle if one comes too close to the territorial line. If one is more aggressive, he will claim the whole tank and the sub dominant male will be on the run/hiding.

Cichlids are great aren't they? 😄  Additionally, at any moment for seemingly no reason at all, you might wake up to all but one of them dead. (thankfully this is fairly rare, but it's always a possibility)

[BIRD0887]

I think they have def. sliced the tank in half. one stays in oner corner kinda n the other the opp side...when they do come tog theyve been mean. I moved the frog into a tote cuz he cldnt handle the elevated water temp, was freaking out. And honestly im gonna prly take him back were i got him, it wld be a lot of hassle cleaning his tank from eating worms. But on another note, my goldfish tank thats had stable levels for atleast a wk now, has high ammonia?! I jst did a biggish water change 2 days in a row so im curious what the ammonia is coming from? I havent changed feeding habits but its beem 3 wks since i gravel vacced there tank?? Ya i have a feeling these rams r gonna be hard to keep but they r so beautiful! If these dont work out, im gonna get a bigger tank for a group of yellow labs

[jwcarlson]

What all is in your goldfish tank now, @BIRD0887?

[BIRD0887]

@jwcarlson Its 5 goldfish, the biggest maybe 4 in wakin. 3 small faintails and a smaller comet. A decent size pleco that im not sure i rly want lol, and 2 corys, plus some snails i jst got. Its a 55 gal

[jwcarlson]

That's a pretty big bioload and in some cases it's just not possible to process it all.  Not sure if that's the case here, but it's possible in certain circumstances.

[BIRD0887]

@jwcarlson I tested my goldfish tank again today and the only level elevated is the ammonia...nitrates r rly low n i have 0 nitrites. If it was food degrading wouldnt the nitrates be high to?

[jwcarlson]

What test set are you using?  Liquids or a test strip?  How low is "really low" for nitrates?  I consider really low less than 5 and 30 I think is high.  

 

How high is the ammonia?

The breakdown of waste contributes first to ammonia, which is processed into nitrite, and then from nitrite into nitrates.  It sounds like your tank isn't cycled.

[BIRD0887]

@jwcarlson i am using the tetra 5-1 and tetra ammonia strips... So in the goldfish tank the nitrates are around maybe 40 and the ammonia was like 3.0... These fish have been in the tank tog like 4-5 wks??

[jwcarlson]

3.0 ammonia is really high.  What are you using for dechlorinator when you do a water change?

[BIRD0887]

@jwcarlson Tetra dechlorinater and i have aquarian ammonia remover...i jst did a gravel vac and partial water change and used the dechlorinater and ammonia remover...

[jwcarlson]

Some dechlorinators can cause false ammonia readings in tests, but I don't know if tetra is one that will.  

[BIRD0887]

@jwcarlson i am rly starting to think its false readings, i did almost 80 water change on my 10 gal last nite, and this morning the ammonia readings super high. Same as on my 55 gal. But im not sure what else to do