Should I do another round of paracleanse

[Kleger86]

Hello again helpful fish people. I am very new to fish keeping and it has been a journey. Long story short I had major issues with my water at first and lost some fish, I finally got it under control but I believe the initial issues and stress caused disease in my tank. It started with some of them having what looked like white mustaches. I treated with Maracyn with no results and lost more fish. The disease evolved to where the skin around their gills looked shredded and some of them look like they have hole in the head. I’m now down to 2 glow light tetras and I just finished my second round of pracleanse and the last 2 little fighters look so much better. Their gills look better (still slightly red) and I can see their wounds starting to close and heal. Do I do a 3rd round of paracleanse since there’s still some issues, do I give them a break, or is there something else I should be doing? Also I didn’t want to get anymore fish until these guys are healthy but is the stress of there only being 2 of them only going to make it worse? 
The meds I have are maracyn, paracleanse, ich-x, primafix, Melafix. 
I did my best with the picture. This little guy was wrecked. The white area above his eyes are what is healing and I still feel like he looks a bit swollen around his gills. 
my water parameters are                          ammonia 0                                                       nitrite 0                                                            nitrate 10                                                               Ph 7.5                                                                    GH 7

 

[nabokovfan87]

If you can, try to get a photo from the side.   Right now, the main thing will be cleaning the gravel/substrate, good filtration, and good water changes.  So let's just confirm the basics are solid and go from there.

When was the last water change, how much volume was changed?  How often do you change water in your tank?

What is your filtration you're using and how is it setup?

Maintenance routine?

[Kleger86]

On 1/24/2024 at 2:18 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

If you can, try to get a photo from the side.   Right now, the main thing will be cleaning the gravel/substrate, good filtration, and good water changes.  So let's just confirm the basics are solid and go from there.

When was the last water change, how much volume was changed?  How often do you change water in your tank?

What is your filtration you're using and how is it setup?

Maintenance routine?

Thank you so much for responding! The last water change was today. The last dose of paracleanse was given Monday. I changed about 40%. I do a 30-40% water change every 5 days. The tank is still pretty new and even though my levels are low I believe I’m still not seeing any nitrates from anything other than fertilizer so I don’t believe it’s fully cycled. I still test daily and never see any ammonia or nitrite but I get paranoid after having such issues in the beginning. I’m feeding very very little but up until the last day or 2 they haven’t really had any interest in food so I do gravel vac every time I do a water change. I also add back Bacteria every change. I have an aqua flow 20 (it’s a 10 gallon tank) modified with a pre filter sponge and a bunch of course sponges in the back. I squeeze out the pre filter sponge when it looks dirty in old aquarium water. I haven’t had to do any maintenance to the inside of the filter. I also run an air stone. I have had some issues with brown algae stuff so every time I change the water I take out one thing and clean it in old aquarium water.
I attached a side photo. Where the white is above his eye used to be very dark. In person it does look like it’s healing. His gills used to look like they went through a shredder and were slothing off but that has gone away. From a certain angle they do look red inside but I couldn’t get a picture. 

[Kleger86]

I was able to get a better side photo of the one who still has some gill issues 

[nabokovfan87]

@Colu what do you think about that last photo? Treat for mouth fungus?

On 1/24/2024 at 2:58 PM, Kleger86 said:

gill issues 

Do you have aquarium salt on hand? I'm guessing these guys were from a big box store?

[Kleger86]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:55 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

@Colu what do you think about that last photo? Treat for mouth fungus?

Do you have aquarium salt on hand? I'm guessing these guys were from a big box store?

Actually no. They are from a really reputable local fish store. They have been really helpful in getting my water under control and they recommend the paracleanse and gave me a refund on all the fish. They said they would take these guys back but I feel bad for them. They have been through the wringer plus the tank is my 6 year old daughter’s and she’s quite attached. I don’t have aquarium salt, I can absolutely run and get some tomorrow. I do have a snail though. 

[Colu]

On 1/25/2024 at 12:37 AM, Kleger86 said:

Actually no. They are from a really reputable local fish store. They have been really helpful in getting my water under control and they recommend the paracleanse and gave me a refund on all the fish. They said they would take these guys back but I feel bad for them. They have been through the wringer plus the tank is my 6 year old daughter’s and she’s quite attached. I don’t have aquarium salt, I can absolutely run and get some tomorrow. I do have a snail though. 

What I would do is treat with kanaplex that's a broad spectrum antibiotic treatment and ick X I would add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons it will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes during treatment at that level it won't harm your plants I think it could be a bacterial infections with a secondary fungal infection add an extra air stone during treatment@Kleger86

Edited January 25 by Colu

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/24/2024 at 4:37 PM, Kleger86 said:

Actually no. They are from a really reputable local fish store. They have been really helpful in getting my water under control and they recommend the paracleanse and gave me a refund on all the fish. They said they would take these guys back but I feel bad for them. They have been through the wringer plus the tank is my 6 year old daughter’s and she’s quite attached. I don’t have aquarium salt, I can absolutely run and get some tomorrow. I do have a snail though. 

Good to hear.  I ask the question simply because the big box stores are prone to certain diseases moreso than others.  I am sorry these guys have been through the wringer. 😞

For the salt you would have to remove the snail (if it's not a nerite).  that being said, it is very useful for external issues.  The ich-X colu mentioned can help with stuff like mouth fungus, and the kanaplex covers mouth rot.

Edited January 25 by nabokovfan87

[Kleger86]

@Colu

Thank you!!!! I just ordered it. I’ll start the ich-x immediately though.

[Kleger86]

@nabokovfan87

It is a nerite. So he can stay in with the salt? The ich-x is ok for him too right, but not the kanaplex. I’m just trying to figure out if I need to make him a little temporary home. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 1/24/2024 at 6:27 PM, Kleger86 said:

It is a nerite. So he can stay in with the salt? The ich-x is ok for him too right, but not the kanaplex. I’m just trying to figure out if I need to make him a little temporary home. 

It'll be best practice to make him a temp home. But nerites can go brackish, ich-x is safe.  Per Seachem's website, it is a risk to snails.

https://seachem.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360015685514-FAQ-Can-I-use-Seachem-KanaPlex-in-a-tank-where-I-m-keeping
 

Edited January 25 by nabokovfan87

[Kleger86]

Great! Thank you both so so much!!

[Colu]

On 1/25/2024 at 3:13 AM, Kleger86 said:

Great! Thank you both so so much!!

Kanaplex can be stressful to snails so I would remove him before treating with kanaplex 

[Kleger86]

I just wanted to give an update for anyone that comes across this and has a similar situation. 
My fish originally looked much worse than the pictures, were lethargic and weren’t eating. I did 2 rounds of paracleanse which brought us to the pictures and the fish starting to have a bit of an appetite. I did a 50% water change and started the salt and ich-x while I waited for the kanaplex to be delivered. I treated with ich-x and salt for 2 days with 30% water changes and saw a big improvement just by doing that. The kanaplex came yesterday and I added that to the tank with a dose of ich-x. This morning they were begging for food by the top of the tank and I can see a visible improvement. I’ll dose with kanaplex again tomorrow and go from there but it seems to be going in the right direction. Hopefully this post helps someone else! 

[Kleger86]

@Colu @nabokovfan87

Im back and hoping you can help me again. 🤞🏼
I followed all of the advice above and my 2 surviving fish made what seemed like a full recovery. Since then I’ve just really tried to focus on keeping the tank stable and getting it truly cycled (which I believe it is) and I have not added anymore fish. My ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate are all 0. Last week one of the fish started acting lethargic, hiding in a bushy plant and slowly stopped eating. I started noticing whiteish patches on him so I added ich-x because I wasn’t quite sure what it was. By the next day he looked horrible and was covered. The patches are frosted looking and larger than what I believe ich would look like. I started dosing with kanaplex and salt again. I did my last dose of kanaplex yesterday and I don’t see much, if any improvement in the way he looks. He’s not worse though and he is eating and out today. Is there something else I should be trying? I attached a few pictures so you could see it at different angles. 

[Colu]

That fish is looking emaciated it could have been weaken by the parasite then developed a secondary bacterial infection  what I would do start treating with expel p once a week for 4 weeks and i would use antibiotic treatment with a different active ingredient api fin and body cure or maracyn2 which every one is more readily available 

[Kleger86]

@Colu thank you again! I really appreciate you taking the time to help. I couldn’t find it local so I ordered maracyn 2 and expel p. It won’t be here until the middle of next week. Is there anything I can do until then? I have paracleanse, paraguard, and regular maracyn on hand. I don’t want to overdo it but I don’t want to do nothing and he get worse. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:14 AM, Kleger86 said:

I started noticing whiteish patches on him so I added ich-x because I wasn’t quite sure what it was. By the next day he looked horrible and was covered. The patches are frosted looking and larger than what I believe ich would look like.

Sounds like Epistylis or a protozoan external issue.  The fish shown is very emaciated, very thin, and has gill damage.  I would tend to assume this fish isn't going to be able to recover from this point, but I have seen fish make very miraculous recoveries. 

The gill damage would lead me to think ammonia or nitrite got in there somehow.  I would consider testing your water for ammonia or asking your water company if the water has chloramines.  All this means is that you would want to do a 2x dose of dechlorinator and make sure you have something like an airstone in there.  I believe your filtration and all that is sound and sufficient, but it's just something to mention.

On 2/15/2024 at 1:11 PM, Kleger86 said:

@Colu thank you again! I really appreciate you taking the time to help. I couldn’t find it local so I ordered maracyn 2 and expel p. It won’t be here until the middle of next week. Is there anything I can do until then? I have paracleanse, paraguard, and regular maracyn on hand. I don’t want to overdo it but I don’t want to do nothing and he get worse. 

What do you think Colu, Salt?

[Kleger86]

@nabokovfan87 I still test my water everyday and there is no ammonia or nitrite. It’s been a long process to get here though because of the combination of my original cluelessness and all the meds I have had to use to fix the problems I originally caused. My tap water tests 0 chlorine so I always assumed there was chloramine and double dose. I do have salt in a low dose in the tank and an airstone. This fish was always the worst off of the 2 so even if he pulls through again I think it will be an ongoing issue but he’s still eating so I’ll keep doing what I can. I was able to find the api fin and body cure so I can start treating with that but I don’t know how much that’s going to help if the underlaying issue isn’t resolved. 

[Colu]

On 2/16/2024 at 12:05 AM, Kleger86 said:

@nabokovfan87 I still test my water everyday and there is no ammonia or nitrite. It’s been a long process to get here though because of the combination of my original cluelessness and all the meds I have had to use to fix the problems I originally caused. My tap water tests 0 chlorine so I always assumed there was chloramine and double dose. I do have salt in a low dose in the tank and an airstone. This fish was always the worst off of the 2 so even if he pulls through again I think it will be an ongoing issue but he’s still eating so I’ll keep doing what I can. I was able to find the api fin and body cure so I can start treating with that but I don’t know how much that’s going to help if the underlaying issue isn’t resolved. 

If it's a difficult one when you have multiple things going on I would do one course of API fin and body cure if he's still here when expel p arrives start treatment straight away it's a 24hr treatment once a week for 4 weeks leave I low dose of salt in it will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes  

 

On 2/15/2024 at 11:46 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Sounds like Epistylis or a protozoan external issue.  The fish shown is very emaciated, very thin, and has gill damage.  I would tend to assume this fish isn't going to be able to recover from this point, but I have seen fish make very miraculous recoveries. 

The gill damage would lead me to think ammonia or nitrite got in there somehow.  I would consider testing your water for ammonia or asking your water company if the water has chloramines.  All this means is that you would want to do a 2x dose of dechlorinator and make sure you have something like an airstone in there.  I believe your filtration and all that is sound and sufficient, but it's just something to mention.

What do you think Colu, Salt?

That doesn't look like epistylis it's more typical of an external bacterial infection that cause tissue and possibly Gill damage 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/15/2024 at 4:55 PM, Colu said:

That doesn't look like epistylis it's more typical of an external bacterial infection that cause tissue and possibly Gill damage 

Yeah. Correct.  The photos are indicating one thing, the description of the event was another. 

Thank you for all the help Colu.  I am honestly thinking, whatever is going on, it might be best to keep the tank with only plants for ~30-60 days to let any sort of pathogens die off before restocking.

[Kleger86]

@nabokovfan87 After doing some research I totally agree. I have a 5 gallon that is almost cycled that I planned use as a quarantine tank as needed. My thought is (if he survives) treat 2 weeks of expel in the current tank and then move them to the 5 gallon and super clean their current tank and let it cycle without them in there. Continue treatment in the 5 gallon and move them back when it’s complete. Even if he doesn’t survive I think I should still remove the 1 remaining fish and clean this tank out and basically start over. Thank you both so so much. I really truly appreciate you taking time to help me. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 2/15/2024 at 6:19 PM, Kleger86 said:

@nabokovfan87 After doing some research I totally agree. I have a 5 gallon that is almost cycled that I planned use as a quarantine tank as needed. My thought is (if he survives) treat 2 weeks of expel in the current tank and then move them to the 5 gallon and super clean their current tank and let it cycle without them in there. Continue treatment in the 5 gallon and move them back when it’s complete. Even if he doesn’t survive I think I should still remove the 1 remaining fish and clean this tank out and basically start over. Thank you both so so much. I really truly appreciate you taking time to help me. 

I do apologize for the struggles you've been having.  Hopefully everything improves and it's all just something you've had to work through and use as a learning experience.

[Kleger86]

On 2/15/2024 at 11:06 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I do apologize for the struggles you've been having.  Hopefully everything improves and it's all just something you've had to work through and use as a learning experience.

Thank you. You’re very kind. I’ve definitely been learning a lot, I just wish it wasn’t at the expense of the fish. Hopefully this works out and we will be able to start enjoying the fish soon!