Systemic Tetra issues... This is getting crazy

[flyingcow]

Ok. In this tank I've been having a LOT of fish loss, and I'm getting to a point where I'm at a loss. So hopefully someone can give me some thoughts.

Here's the parameters before this past weekend's water change:

Ammonia: 0

Nitrites: 0

Nitrates: 40ppm

Phosphates: ~1ppm

Phosphates have always been high in this tank, and I'm fighting some pretty nasty blackbeard and staghorn algae. I don't know if this is relevant. Gravel is usually not too dirty when I gravel vac. I think the plants and algae take care of most of it. The tank has been up for about a year and a half. Here's the population history:

2 Bolivian Rams. One died shortly after coming home (about 3 weeks). I'm pretty sure it was an aggression issue that I wasn't able to react to quickly enough. The other Ram is doing great

10 Black Phantom tetras. I'm down to 8 now. 1 male completely disappeared after a few days of laying sideways and 1 female wasted away then died. I was able to remove her body.

11 Black Neon Tetras. I have had several die suddenly, and several just disappear. I'm down to 5. Most recently, I had one that was swimming erratically and looked like he had some swim bladder issues. After a stay in the hospital tank with maracyn and expel P, he improved pretty significantly (though not 100%) and returned to the tank. He disappeared 2 days later. (This was about 3 weeks ago)

6 Panda Corys. I lost one of them within 2 weeks of coming home, and the other 5 are doing just fine for over a year

4 nerite snails bought two at a time a couple months apart from two different suppliers. I lost 2 (one rom each supplier) within 48 hours of each other, then the other two lasted about 7 months and again died within a week or two of each other. 

 

Fast forward to today. A Black Phantom is showing the same exact symptoms as the most recent black neon that died. Video below:

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/RheMsHkTuDo?feature=share

 

Pardon the dead plant mulm. The hospital tank was housing a bunch of plants in it.

 

It didn't help that I was gone Monday-Friday for 5 months and only had weekends to observe and work on the tank. My wife did her best to help while I was gone. 

The problems seem to be local to the tetras. I tend to think the early loss of the Ram and the Cory was unrelated, but I can't be sure. Am I at a point where I have to be thinking mycobacteria? I do use really long rubber gloves in the tank now because it's been on my mind. I did a dose of expel-P for him, and he seems to have a bit more energy, but his swimming is still a mess. I could do Maracyn or Kanaplex next (not knowing if it's gram positive or negative). Thoughts?

[Littlefish]

That sounds about what I experience as normal losses in a large tank.  Tetras in my area just seem to have a lot of deaths, where angels, snails, guppies, etc all live.

The snail deaths seem odd to me, never have snails die except from old age or predation.

[Katherine]

On 12/20/2023 at 10:43 AM, flyingcow said:

4 nerite snails bought two at a time a couple months apart from two different suppliers. I lost 2 (one rom each supplier) within 48 hours of each other, then the other two lasted about 7 months and again died within a week or two of each other. 

This doesn't seem too unusual for nerite snails to me. They are generally wild caught and who knows how old they are when they get to you. Some just have trouble with all the transitions involved in going from the wild to your home tank.

What are your ph, kh, and gh?

[flyingcow]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:10 PM, Katherine said:

This doesn't seem too unusual for nerite snails to me. They are generally wild caught and who knows how old they are when they get to you. Some just have trouble with all the transitions involved in going from the wild to your home tank.

What are your ph, kh, and gh?

I haven't measured my pH recently since it really doesn't move but..

pH: 7.4-7.6

KH: 4 degrees

GH: 7 degrees

On 12/20/2023 at 12:38 PM, Littlefish said:

That sounds about what I experience as normal losses in a large tank.  Tetras in my area just seem to have a lot of deaths, where angels, snails, guppies, etc all live.

The snail deaths seem odd to me, never have snails die except from old age or predation.

Now you have me wondering seeing as how all my past experiences were with a 10 gallon tank. 36 isn't too big, but it's definitely a bigger population.

[Katherine]

On 12/20/2023 at 12:13 PM, flyingcow said:

pH: 7.4-7.6

KH: 4 degrees

GH: 7 degrees

That should be just fine for the nerites.

I've had a few die on me within 9 months of getting them, I've also got one I've had for 4 years. You just can't predict it.

Edited December 20, 2023 by Katherine

[flyingcow]

On 12/20/2023 at 1:19 PM, Katherine said:

That should be just fine for the nerites.

I've had a few die on me within 9 months of getting them, I've also got one I've had for 4 years. You just can't predict it.

I haven't added anything new since I started losing fish. Although now you guys have me thinking this might not be as big an issue. So I could add some nerites back.

[Littlefish]

Cory mentioned in one podcast what they expect to lose as a % of incoming fish, and yours doesn't seem too far out of line.  Imagine all humans living to 90 from birth 😁

Carry on!

[flyingcow]

On 12/20/2023 at 6:05 PM, Littlefish said:

Cory mentioned in one podcast what they expect to lose as a % of incoming fish, and yours doesn't seem too far out of line.  Imagine all humans living to 90 from birth 😁

Carry on!

>50% loss of Black Neons in 18 months? The rest I think I agree with you, but that one seems steep. Also, symptoms of the current Black Phantom are identical to the last Black Neon to die.

[Colu]

When you get odd random over a period of time I would be concerned about a parasitic infection any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy flashing spitting food out sunken belly erratic swimming patterns @flyingcow

[flyingcow]

Very much so erratic swimming. Every now and then they spit out food. No sunken belly or lethargy. No one is really hanging out at the surface much either.

 

I did a round of expel p with no change in his symptoms.

[Colu]

On 12/21/2023 at 3:02 AM, flyingcow said:

Very much so erratic swimming. Every now and then they spit out food. No sunken belly or lethargy. No one is really hanging out at the surface much either.

 

I did a round of expel p with no change in his symptoms.

What I would suggest is doing odd ducks treatment protocol for parasitic infections the combination of praziquantel and levamisole will treat a wide range of parasites

Edited December 21, 2023 by Colu

[flyingcow]

I'm assuming I should do this in both the main tank and the hospital tank, correct?

[Colu]

On 12/21/2023 at 2:30 PM, flyingcow said:

I'm assuming I should do this in both the main tank and the hospital tank, correct?

 Yes I would treat main tank and the quarantine tank as the fish in quarantine tank have has come from the main tank 

[flyingcow]

So two and a half weeks in to this (I had to start late due to travel). Everybody is looking good. 2 big water changes a week forced me to find a corner of my tank under some rocks that was NASTY, so I'm sure that didn't hurt. The little guy in the Quarantine tank is looking a little better. No longer going upside down, but still very thin and struggling. Here's hoping he hangs on. Thanks so much for your help on this!

[flyingcow]

A quick update. I finished the 6 weeks of treatment a few weeks ago. I did lose the guy in the quarantine tank. He improved, but I couldn't get him to eat. Everyone else is doing fine and showing no symptoms. Now the goal is to take on the Blackbeard algae problem and keep this tank clean!

 

Thank you all so much for the help, and hopefully I get to put this behind me for a while.