C. Schultzei Corydoras Vertical Top of Water Column

[Colu]

On 12/22/2023 at 9:24 PM, ShineOn75 said:

Today,  I lost another one.   I've lost 3/3 now, from the same breeder, from the same shipment.  He didn't perch at the top of the water column, he was laying around a lot though.   His fins looked a bit ragged,  but not clamped.  His caudle tail did have an area that looked like tissue was attempting to grow back.  Part of his caudle tail tip was missing but I didn't see any redness. He was eating. I feed Hikari sinking pellets, algae wafers and San Francisco Bay blood worms.   I am hoping that was just a bad batch, I over medicated or both.

Hopefully,  this second batch I received on 12/19 stays healthy...  I don't see any physical symptoms, so far. 🤞 I didn't feed them for 24 hours, I didn't medicate them,  other than Seachem Stressguard.  I checked my water parameters and they're still good including ammonia and nitrates all at 0. 0 Chlorine, Nitrates low at 20ppm.  GH in the 200's, KH went down a bit from 80 to like 60ish but pH holding at around 7.2-7.3. 

 

You can get odd random deaths days or weeks apart with parasitic infection  sometimes with no symptoms it might be  worthwhile doing odd Ducks treatment protocol for parasitic infections 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:24 PM, ShineOn75 said:

Hopefully,  this second batch I received on 12/19 stays healthy...  I don't see any physical symptoms, so far. 🤞 I didn't feed them for 24 hours, I didn't medicate them,  other than Seachem Stressguard.  I checked my water parameters and they're still good including ammonia and nitrates all at 0. 0 Chlorine, Nitrates low at 20ppm.  GH in the 200's, KH went down a bit from 80 to like 60ish but pH holding at around 7.2-7.3. 

If you want to, take a video of them.  I'd love to see how they are behaving to compare to mine!

[ShineOn75]

I lost two more.  After lights out, with a flashlight, I saw two more flashing.  The flashing seems to be more erratic/twitchy than what I've seen in other fish.   I had 13, now I have 8 left.   

I removed carbon and then dropped 2 packets of Expel P in their 20 gallon long and blacked it out.  Will follow odd duck's protocol. 

I'll try to get some video after the blackout.  They're being somewhat active and eating.  

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I lost two more.  After lights out, with a flashlight, I saw two more flashing.  The flashing seems to be more erratic/twitchy than what I've seen in other fish.   I had 13, now I have 8 left.   

I removed carbon and then dropped 2 packets of Expel P in their 20 gallon long and blacked it out.  Will follow odd duck's protocol. 

I'll try to get some video after the blackout.  They're being somewhat active and eating.  

what is filtration? all I can think to do is to do a good size WC and to add air / carbon.

for the sake of any help, my water is:

71-72 degrees
3-4 KH
7-25+ GH (they've been in both)
Nitrates under 20
Filtration = two hob's in a 75, or a very strong hob in a 29, or a fluval 407.

On 12/22/2023 at 8:27 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I saw two more flashing.

Check your PH/KH.  let us know.

[ShineOn75]

My water fluctuates between temp 73 and 74. I was keeping it at 78 until you recommended lowering it. I am using a Aquarium Co-op 100watt heater. 

pH 7.2-7.3

GH 220 ppm

KH about 60-70 ppm

20 nitrates

0 Nitrite

0 ammonia

0 Chlorine

Filtration:

Aqueon 20 quiet flow with this filter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284974384306?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=UcAcLRkPQna&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=gbDO3-0VR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY 

I took the filter out while I dose with Expel P

Aquarium coop 20 gallon sponge with an air stone inserted

2 additional air stones.  

The shrimp are all doing great.  I have blue dream and a bamboo shrimp in the tank.  

I'll be doing a 50% water change tomorrow morning and then adding Paraclense. 

 

 

Edited December 23, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:42 AM, ShineOn75 said:

Aqueon 20 quiet flow with this filter:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/284974384306?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=UcAcLRkPQna&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=gbDO3-0VR1O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY 

I took the filter out while I dose with Expel

you can keep that running. all you have to worry about removing is the carbon. There's no carbon there from what I could tell.

 

PH looks good. I don't think that's causing any annoyance for them.

 

If you keep see them flashing, it would be ich-x + salt time. (external protozoan parasites)

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[ShineOn75]

......

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by ShineOn75
Accidentally Double Posted

[ShineOn75]

In the description of the filter it says it has activated carbon cotton.  Because of this I took it out. I guess activated carbon cotton is the same thing as activated carbon but not sure.  

I took the blanket off the tank to see what's going on after adding Expel P.  I've got another Corey floating at the top upside down. I thought he was dead but when I touched him, he immediately swam back to the bottom. Like the others I don't expect him to make it.  It's like they're trying to suck air. I've got a feeling all the Cory's I bought from this breeder are going to die. Hopefully the five I got from the other breeder remain healthy. 

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/23/2023 at 4:31 PM, ShineOn75 said:

In the description of the filter it says it has activated carbon cotton.  Because of this I took it out. I guess activated carbon cotton is the same thing as activated carbon but not sure.  

I took the blanket off the tank to see what's going on after adding Expel P.  I've got another Corey floating at the top upside down. I thought he was dead but when I touched him, he immediately swam back to the bottom. Like the others I don't expect him to make it.  It's like they're trying to suck air. I've got a feeling all the Cory's I bought from this breeder are going to die. Hopefully the five I got from the other breeder remain healthy. 

 

OK.  Yeah, that makes sense then.  it is carbon infused foam (at least one layer).  The only thing that sucks is you're also losing a huge source of your biological filter.

 

[ShineOn75]

I do have the 20 gallon aquarium co-op sponge filter in there still.  My HOB has the aquarium co-op pre-filter on the intake.  That provides some surface space.  

 

I took the blanket off this morning to do the 50% water change and I had another dead C. Schultzei.  I'm down to 7 now. 

All the shrimp in the tank seem to be doing great. 

I'm about to do the water change and then add Paraclense.  Hopefully, I can keep these 7 alive and add more after Christmas when hopefully this crisis passes. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/24/2023 at 5:56 AM, ShineOn75 said:

I'm about to do the water change and then add Paraclense.  Hopefully, I can keep these 7 alive and add more after Christmas when hopefully this crisis passes

When you add the paracleanse are you adding any aquarium salt?

[ShineOn75]

@nabokovfan87I have not added salt during the Paraclense treatment. I am doing the water change in about 30-60 minutes from now.  I added salt at yours and @Colu direction when this first started.  Should I re-add after this water change? 

Should I run an active carbon filter for 24 hours before adding the Paraclense?

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/24/2023 at 10:11 AM, ShineOn75 said:

Should I re-add after this water change? 

Should I run an active carbon filter for 24 hours before adding the Paraclense?

No need to run carbon.

If the tank has shrimp, salt it up to 1 tbsp per 5G. Otherwise 1 per 2gallons.

The only thing is to keep an eye on the plants, but it would help attack any parasites as well as oxygenation for the fish.

As long as you've done enough water changes to remove a good amount of the salt previously used, it's fine to add it when you start the para cleanse treatment (each time you start the week of doses, I just add salt that one time).

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

I lost another one this morning. There is only one left from that order of eight. 

My original five that I got from a different breeder are all still alive. Do you think it's possible that the ones from the first breeder are releasing a toxin that is killing the c. Schultzei from the second breeder? It's weird because the tank is completely cycled, I barely have nitrates. The shrimp are doing awesome. 

After dosing with expel P and a water change my nitrates are 10 PPM. Previously it was like 20 maybe 25 ppm.  The only thing I can think of is the original 5 C. Schultzei are releasing their toxin and killing any newcomers. The secondary breeder is the one who brought this up to me.  I don't see any spots, bloating, clamped fins, they eat well, etc.  He did refund me which I thought was really cool. So, hats off to JoesAqua.com for the refund.  His blue dream shrimp have been really good and have good coloring. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/26/2023 at 6:49 AM, ShineOn75 said:

My original five that I got from a different breeder are all still alive. Do you think it's possible that the ones from the first breeder are releasing a toxin that is killing the c. Schultzei from the second breeder? It's weird because the tank is completely cycled, I barely have nitrates. The shrimp are doing awesome. 

Normally the toxin is released, water is milky, then they die off in about 5-15 minutes. It's extremely quick.  Rapid breathing and then they just die.

 

If there's internal damage of some kind of damage internally it would be this extended issues over time like you're seeing.

I can't say that's the case because everything we've discussed it seems like the correct steps were taken. (On both sides) The only real issue was the heat pack stuff you mentioned.

All we can say is "stress" and then go from there. Maybe there is some way to get an autopsy to determine what happened, but I think right now it's just really tough to point towards one sign.

On 12/26/2023 at 6:49 AM, ShineOn75 said:

The only thing I can think of is the original 5 C. Schultzei are releasing their toxin and killing any newcomers. The secondary breeder is the one who brought this up to me.  I don't see any spots, bloating, clamped fins, they eat well, etc. 

If either of you have the opportunity, the co-op has the channel membership and that gives you access towards a medical vet talk as well as several corydoras talks, one of them specifically focused on the toxin. I really, really don't believe the toxin will cause the response you're seeing based on those sources of information.

Do you happen to have any botanicals?

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

I agree.  I didn't see any milky water and the deaths have certainly been over an extended period of time.  

Stress from shipping, etc. Joe's Aquarium was great about the whole thing.  I really appreciated his customer service and have enjoyed the Blue Dream shrimp. 

Interestingly enough, I can tell the two different breeders apart.  The one from the first breeder; their barbels were completely black.  The one's from Joe's had white tipped barbels.  I have one left.  I am hoping he makes it. I prefer to keep groups of 6, preferably 9-12.

I'll have to check out that aquarium co-op membership. Just the data alone that I could research would be worth it. 

Edited December 27, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/26/2023 at 6:02 PM, ShineOn75 said:

Interestingly enough, I can tell the two different breeders apart.  The one from the first breeder; their barbels were completely black.  The one's from Joe's had white tipped barbels.  I have one left.  I am hoping he makes it. I prefer to keep groups of 6, preferably 9-12.

How do they look compared to mine!!!?!?!?!? 🙂

 

I'm always curious about different lines and trying to get an idea for what the "normal" version is or specialty lines. (Like Greg Sage's Odessa's!)

[Colu]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:02 AM, ShineOn75 said:

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

I agree.  I didn't see any milky water and the deaths have certainly been over an extended period of time.  

Stress from shipping, etc. Joe's Aquarium was great about the whole thing.  I really appreciated his customer service and have enjoyed the Blue Dream shrimp. 

Interestingly enough, I can tell the two different breeders apart.  The one from the first breeder; their barbels were completely black.  The one's from Joe's had white tipped barbels.  I have one left.  I am hoping he makes it. I prefer to keep groups of 6, preferably 9-12.

I'll have to check out that aquarium co-op membership. Just the data alone that I could research would be worth it. 

 

The fact that it's only affected one group of Cory's could mean they have a compromised immune system due to stress or low genetic diversity 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Colu
Typo

[ShineOn75]

@Colu makes sense, it could be both in this case, unfortunately. 

 

@nabokovfan87  Your Schultzei look a little different than mine. It could just be the lighting.  Yours appear to have a brown hue that runs the length of their body on top. I only seem to see that in mine on their fins, particularly the caudle tail. I think mine are younger, possibly they're just males but yours appear thicker than mine.  Yours look awesome 👍 nice and healthy.  My original 5 from the first breeder are still going strong and the last remaining one from the 2nd breeder seems okay, so far.  I included a pic of 3 of the 6.    

What a ride this has been. When the time is right, hopefully; the next batch I buy will be solid.  I was really hoping to spawn these.  

Edited December 27, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/27/2023 at 12:07 PM, ShineOn75 said:

@nabokovfan87  Your Schultzei look a little different than mine. It could just be the lighting.

As they get comfortable that red will appear.

There's also concolor corydoras that are very similar, but have the red in different locations.

Yours look good and I see males and females in there, obviously just one photo, but seems you're setup for success.

[ShineOn75]

On 12/27/2023 at 7:15 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

As they get comfortable that red will appear.

There's also concolor corydoras that are very similar, but have the red in different locations.

Yours look good and I see males and females in there, obviously just one photo, but seems you're setup for success.

Ah, good to know.  I am learning a lot about these C. Schultzei. I am looking forward to adding more numbers when the weather warms up a bit.  Really glad that you see a female! I can't tell yet.  I can easily tell what sex my Albinos and Emerald's are.  I struggle identifying my Orange Venezuelaneus and these C. Schultzei.

 So far, no further losses. 🙏

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

Happy New Year!

So far, no further losses. The six I have left appear healthy. 

I also noticed a Blue Dream female with eggs.  Hoping the Schultzei don't eat all the fry. 😁

Thanks again for all the help. 👍

[nabokovfan87]

Keep it up.  Keep them happy and they are an extremely rewarding fish!

I had meant to share this too. Really fun photo.

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

Grim Reaper has returned.  I found two more dead corydoras, 4 left. Now the deaths are touching fish from both breeders.  The first deaths were only occuring in the fish from the 2nd breeder. 

Yesterday, I did a water change in preparation to run the 2nd dose of excel p, this is the only thing that changed. I had run a complete course of expel P>water change>Paraclense for one week>water change>two deaths.   

Water parameters after water change:

0 nitrates 

0 nitrites

0 ammonia

0 Chlorine

GH 200PPM

KH 60 PPM

pH went down a bit to 6.91.  I try to keep pH at 7.0-7.15

Should I continue the protocol of ExcelP and Paraclense?  My bamboo shrimp and blue dream shrimp are doing great, no losses. I'd hate to stress them out.  I just had a bamboo shrimp molt.

I don't see any clues on the dead fish as to what the problem is; no bloating, no swelling, spots, etc.  It almost seems like I need to let this mystery play out over the next 30-60 days.  If the Cory's all die, then  do a few big water changes and then try again.  Maybe, I'll just turn this into a shrimp only tank since they are thriving. 

Edited January 4 by ShineOn75

[Colu]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:37 PM, ShineOn75 said:

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

Grim Reaper has returned.  I found two more dead corydoras, 4 left. Now the deaths are touching fish from both breeders.  The first deaths were only occuring in the fish from the 2nd breeder. 

Yesterday, I did a water change in preparation to run the 2nd dose of excel p, this is the only thing that changed. I had run a complete course of expel P>water change>Paraclense for one week>water change>two deaths.   

Water parameters after water change:

0 nitrates 

0 nitrites

0 ammonia

0 Chlorine

GH 200PPM

KH 60 PPM

pH went down a bit to 6.91.  I try to keep pH at 7.0-7.15

Should I continue the protocol of ExcelP and Paraclense?  My bamboo shrimp and blue dream shrimp are doing great, no losses. I'd hate to stress them out.  I just had a bamboo shrimp molt.

I don't see any clues on the dead fish as to what the problem is; no bloating, no swelling, spots, etc.  It almost seems like I need to let this mystery play out over the next 30-60 days.  If the Cory's all die, then  do a few big water changes and then try again.  Maybe, I'll just turn this into a shrimp only tank since they are thriving. 

What I would suggest is doing a course another course of expel p you could follow up with course of maracyn2 just in case there's a bacterial component with no symptoms to go off it Could be parasitic or bacterial