C. Schultzei Corydoras Vertical Top of Water Column

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

I bought 5 healthy C. schultzei.  I put them in a 20 gallon long with 10 blue dream shrimp and a bamboo shrimp.  I gave the 5 Schultzei a light dosage food soak containing Paraclense, Maracyn2, and  Erythromycin for 1 week. 3 weeks later they're strong and healthy. 

Last week , I bought 4 more Schultzei but from a different breeder. I began to feed the the same food soak for one week. Of these 4 new Schultzei, I lost two in 4 days. I discontinued the food soak.  There were no symptoms that I've noticed.  They looked healthy, they were eating. 

Now a few days later I have another Schultzei that is displaying strange (to me at least) behavior. It's swimming to the top of my plants and wedging its caudle tail on the top of the plant and floating vertical with his face just at the surface.  He is not breathing heavy, in fact he looks so calm, that I keep thinking he's dead.  Each time I touch the surface of the water, he swims away quickly.  This morning he ate a blood worm and ate algae wafers.   I don't see any lesions, fins look good, good coloration, normal breathing, no flashing.  I did add three more air stones to the corners of the tanks.

nitrate 10 ppm

nitrite 0

Ammonia 0

GH 270

KH 80

pH 7.3

chlorine 0

I included a video link and pics below:

https://streamable.com/c1yafy

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by ShineOn75

[Colu]

Not a lot to Go on it's possible they had a reaction to the medication I wouldn't recommend using multiple medication in food at the same if your going to use antibiotic treatment such as maracyn or maracyn2 I would dose maracyn and then follow up with maracyn2 in week if your doing a preventive treatment using these three medication together can put stress on the organ's and be very stressful on fish  if he's hanging at the surface but your  not seeing rapid breathing it could have the start of parasitic infection such as Gill flukes am not convinced there's a parasitic infection going on @nabokovfan87keeps these so maybe it's something they have come across this behaviour I haven't kept Cory's in a long time 

[ShineOn75]

Thanks @Colu and appreciate the referral to @nabokovfan87.

I'll do the food soaks in 3 separate weeks from now on.  It's the only thing I can think of that caused this.  They looked healthy and maybe it was just too much for their system at once.  I'll keep an eye on the Cory hanging at the top and will wait to see if nabokovfan87 has any further advice.   

[Colu]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:43 PM, ShineOn75 said:

Thanks @Colu and appreciate the referral to @nabokovfan87.

I'll do the food soaks in 3 separate weeks from now on.  It's the only thing I can think of that caused this.  They looked healthy and maybe it was just too much for their system at once.  I'll keep an eye on the Cory hanging at the top and will wait to see if nabokovfan87 has any further advice.   

You could add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 10 gallons that will aid Gill function and add essential electrolytes at that level it won't harm your plants as a bit of supportive care it will also help with osmoregulation 

[nabokovfan87]

@ShineOn75 what's the temp at?

 

[ShineOn75]

It's at 77.  I was able to get a better view of  his breathing with lights out, flashlight from underneath. He does appear to be breathing rapidly.

@Colu I only have kosher salt ATM. Can I use that in place of aquarium salt? I can purchase aquarium salt in the AM.

Edited December 18, 2023 by ShineOn75

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:09 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I bought 5 healthy C. schultzei.  I put them in a 20 gallon long with 10 blue dream shrimp and a bamboo shrimp.  I gave the 5 Schultzei a light dosage food soak containing Paraclense, Maracyn2, and  Erythromycin for 1 week. 3 weeks later they're strong and healthy. 

So.... I would absolutely not dose 3 meds via food right away. I would do one of them, but not three at once. It's likely causing some stress or discomfort and that's throwing some things off.

You're using erithromycin in addition to another bacterial med (maracyn 2) in addition to the parasite medication.

I wouldn't double stack the bacterial meds like that, potentially that's the cause.

My steps moving forward right now would be to test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate daily and to do a water change.

Rule #1 right now is to reduce stress. Because you're talking about a shrimp tank the bioload being pretty minimal and then you added a good amount of fish. Most of your ammonia in the tank will start as fish respiration. So let's test that and keep an eye out.

If there is any, add in some aquarium salt and that should be done to help heal or prevent ammonia burns.

Shrimp and the corydoras will like it cooler. I try to keep mine 72-74 range. Cooler temps means more oxygen in the water and that helps them to breathe a little easier. Adding the air is a great move, so well done there.  If those are the only things in the tank let's drop the temp 1-2 degrees each day until we're in the better range for them.

On 12/17/2023 at 4:34 PM, ShineOn75 said:

He does appear to be breathing rapidly.

Yep... Makes sense. Sitting at the surface too is likely water or oxygen related.

The video reminds me of a female looking for a place to lay eggs. Being in a new tank can trigger that too. Let's make sure they're ok, go from there.

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:09 PM, ShineOn75 said:

nitrate 10 ppm

nitrite 0

Ammonia 0

GH 270

KH 80

pH 7.3

chlorine 0

Parameters seem pretty close to mine, so no concern there. In terms of substrate, anything being used that could be causing some concern?  Beyond that, I would just give them time to acclimate.  Shipping / movement can be especially stressful on corydoras.

[jwcarlson]

On 12/17/2023 at 6:48 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

So.... I would absolutely not dose 3 meds via food right away. I would do one of them, but not three at once. It's likely causing some stress or discomfort and that's throwing some things off.

You're using erithromycin in addition to another bacterial med (maracyn 2) in addition to the parasite medication.

I wouldn't double stack the bacterial meds like that, potentially that's the cause.

My steps moving forward right now would be to test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate daily and to do a water change.

Rule #1 right now is to reduce stress. Because you're talking about a shrimp tank the bioload being pretty minimal and then you added a good amount of fish. Most of your ammonia in the tank will start as fish respiration. So let's test that and keep an eye out.

If there is any, add in some aquarium salt and that should be done to help heal or prevent ammonia burns.

Shrimp and the corydoras will like it cooler. I try to keep mine 72-74 range. Cooler temps means more oxygen in the water and that helps them to breathe a little easier. Adding the air is a great move, so well done there.  If those are the only things in the tank let's drop the temp 1-2 degrees each day until we're in the better range for them.

Yep... Makes sense. Sitting at the surface too is likely water or oxygen related.

The video reminds me of a female looking for a place to lay eggs. Being in a new tank can trigger that too. Let's make sure they're ok, go from there.

 

That female is a tank, @nabokovfan87

[Colu]

On 12/18/2023 at 12:34 AM, ShineOn75 said:

It's at 77.  I was able to get a better view of  his breathing with lights out, flashlight from underneath. He does appear to be breathing rapidly.

@Colu I only have kosher salt ATM. Can I use that in place of aquarium salt? I can purchase aquarium salt in the AM.

Kosher  salt fine as you have shrimp I would only add 1 table spoon for 10 gallons i wouldn't go above that level 

[ShineOn75]

I am using organic soil, worm castings, father fishes soil supplement and two inches of pool sand.  I've reset the temperature to 73 degrees.  I only have kosher salt but I can get aquarium salt in the AM.  Should I hold off till the AM? 

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

[Colu]

On 12/18/2023 at 1:39 AM, ShineOn75 said:

I am using organic soil, worm castings, father fishes soil supplement and two inches of pool sand.  I've reset the temperature to 73 degrees.  I only have kosher salt but I can get aquarium salt in the AM.  Should I hold off till the AM? 

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

Kosher salt fine it's pure sodium chloride safe to use

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2023 at 5:39 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I only have kosher salt but I can get aquarium salt in the AM.  Should I hold off till the AM? 

Following the water change and water testing, then decide on salt. Essentially, you'd want to verify if it's an ammonia issue and go from there. Because of the plants, avoiding salt is best, but a low dose of salt should be ok.

On 12/17/2023 at 5:38 PM, Colu said:

Kosher  salt fine as you have shrimp I would only add 1 table spoon for 10 gallons i wouldn't go above that level 

I've used aquarium salt, 1 tbsp per 5 for shrimp and they were ok with it. Lower the dose the better though.

On 12/17/2023 at 5:37 PM, jwcarlson said:

That female is a tank, @nabokovfan87

She knows it too! 😂

[ShineOn75]

There is no ammonia according to my aquarium co-op test strip.  I've been  testing for ammonia/nitrites since the issue started.  I've been doing it once in the morning and at night . The sticks come out the same color they went in. It is a new tank but  the sponge filter came from a healthy, cycled tank.  I try to keep two in each of my tanks for possible new tanks.

I had recently been giving that food soak trio to my mollies and platies after I lost two  mollies to Camella  infections. But it certainly hasn't worked out for me with the C. Schultzei.  Lesson learned the hard way, unfortunately.  

@nabokovfan87

  @Colu

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:33 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I had recently been giving that food soak trio to my mollies and platies after I lost two  mollies to Camella  infections. But it certainly hasn't worked out for me with the C. Schultzei.  Lesson learned the hard way, unfortunately.  

It may have not been anything to do with the meds, but just a factor of so much going on and one thing added to another.  I haven't brought in corydoras in a while, but every single time I do I have a lot of losses.  It's potentially the east --> west coast journey. I just am unsure why and I know that my own experience was limited at the times when I brought them in.  I knew how to acclimate, I did all of the right things, but it wasn't something I've done a dozen or three dozen times.  What I am much better at these days is just understanding the systematic approach of stress.  Something as simple as temperature leads to stress, travel leads to stress, water parameters changing from the tank to a bag to a new tank add to stress, and any sort of stress can cause issues. Minimizing that stress or just giving them time to recover from it can be critical.  A lot of shops and hobbyists might get a fish to their tank safely, but I am going to bet that it does happen where the first 48-72 hours is critical to success long term.

Fingers crossed and knock on wood.  Let's hope that we have an idea of what's going on and just monitor the situation moving forward.

[ShineOn75]

I really appreciate the help from you both; @Colu @nabokovfan87.

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I have the temp down to 73, now.  The tank is a 20 gallon long. I put in two tbsp of kosher salt last night.  So far, they are all still alive this morning, including the Cory swimming at the top.  He's still going to the top but he has good energy and they are eating.   Saying prayers for the little guy.   

Edited December 18, 2023 by ShineOn75

[ShineOn75]

So, I noticed these white spots appear near his right side gills..I'll try to get better pics when he moves to a different spot.  

[nabokovfan87]

Hm... tough to say what it could be.  sand and other things can stick to them for an extended period. Might be nothing. 

 

[ShineOn75]

I wondered if it was sand or plant particle.  I have pool sand on the substrate and lots of plants.  He is resting on the flower tops and amongst the duck weed.  He's hanging in there. Keeping 👀 on em.  

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/18/2023 at 3:55 PM, ShineOn75 said:

I wondered if it was sand or plant particle.  I have pool sand on the substrate and lots of plants.  He is resting on the flower tops and amongst the duck weed.  He's hanging in there. Keeping 👀 on em.  

I had some of that moonlight / very fine sand and I felt so bad for Riddick.  It was the sand the store had in a small bag so it was what I used.  Swear that fish had a sand beard for a few months until I was sure it wasn't ich.

I still, to this day, need to go get a bag of sand from the shop, but yeah.  Is the fist still being vertical or just sort of hanging around near the top?

Secondarily, if need be, do you have a breeder box or something if you need to use that and keep the fish towards the surface of the water?  (I don't think you do, but just trying to cover all the bases.

[ShineOn75]

@Colu

@nabokovfan87

I do have a breeder box. I have mollies and platys. It's become a necessity. They've outgrown it though. Now I have three 20 gallon tubs full of em, lol.  My LFS's buys them from me at $2 a fish, so not bad.  I am hoping to spawn the  C. Schultzei.  I also have one male albino platinum molly that I am hoping to spawn.

Anyway, I think I have good news.  I am hesitant to say it because the last time I did, the fish got dropsy and died a few days later.... With that said, the C. Schultzei isn't perching anymore.  He's joined his mates on the bottom again.  They ate aggressively this morning including the percher.  Still keeping a close eye on him. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by ShineOn75

[ShineOn75]

Well, I have to eat my words again. I am not sure what happened but the corydora that was perching at the top of the water column passed away this afternoon. He looked good this morning, had good energy and he ate.. Unfortunately, I just found him floating at the top of the water column, upside down. 

Thanks to you both for your help and all the time you spent helping me.  I greatly appreciate it. 

@nabokovfan87

@Colu

[nabokovfan87]

I'm very sorry for your loss @ShineOn75

Please feel free to send me a DM if you run into issues with them in future.

[Colu]

Sorry for your loss I would keep a very close eye on your remaining Cory's for any similar symptoms @ShineOn75

[ShineOn75]

Today,  I lost another one.   I've lost 3/3 now, from the same breeder, from the same shipment.  He didn't perch at the top of the water column, he was laying around a lot though.   His fins looked a bit ragged,  but not clamped.  His caudle tail did have an area that looked like tissue was attempting to grow back.  Part of his caudle tail tip was missing but I didn't see any redness. He was eating. I feed Hikari sinking pellets, algae wafers and San Francisco Bay blood worms.   I am hoping that was just a bad batch, I over medicated or both.

Hopefully,  this second batch I received on 12/19 stays healthy...  I don't see any physical symptoms, so far. 🤞 I didn't feed them for 24 hours, I didn't medicate them,  other than Seachem Stressguard.  I checked my water parameters and they're still good including ammonia and nitrates all at 0. 0 Chlorine, Nitrates low at 20ppm.  GH in the 200's, KH went down a bit from 80 to like 60ish but pH holding at around 7.2-7.3.