Nana Petite looking yellow

[PBA]

It is a 40g breeder full of other plants, mostly bacopa and pearlweed, a barteri, java moss and some crypts and the nana petite is the only ones yellowing. The tank is over a year and a half old and I have been using root tabs and dosing easy green about 6 pumps every morning. Before I go adding some, would you think its a potassium deficiency. I am at work right now so I do not have a picture but I can when I get home. They have always been the most finicky of the plants in the tank and there are 5 of them. What are your thoughts?

[Rube_Goldfish]

Is the anubias itself a year old, or is it a more recent addition? Is this yellowing a new thing or has it happened since you put it in the tank? And - just to cover my bases- the rhizome isn't buried, is it?

[PBA]

The anubias is over a year and a half old and not a new edition, the rhizome is attached to lava rock above substrate and surrounded by moss. Its something thats happened gradually over the last couple of months.  I noticed and started adding a bit more easy green and it hasnt changed over the last month.

[Rube_Goldfish]

On 11/13/2023 at 6:47 PM, PBA said:

The anubias is over a year and a half old and not a new edition, the rhizome is attached to lava rock above substrate and surrounded by moss. Its something thats happened gradually over the last couple of months.  I noticed and started adding a bit more easy green and it hasnt changed over the last month.

Hmm, then we're pretty quickly getting out of my knowledge base. @Seattle_Aquarist?

In the meantime, can you post photos? And take a look at this chart:

(From here: https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/plant-nutrient-deficiencies)

Does it look like any of those?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Rube_Goldfish
Fixed picture

[PBA]

First picture are the ones on a lava rock pile, the 2nd and last photo are on individual rocks rhizome is above substrate however they have rooted into it.

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @PBA,

Thank you for the 'shout out' @Rube_Goldfish.  The photos certainly help when trying to diagnose a nutrient related issue.  Yellowing (chlorosis) on plant leaves are most often caused by insufficient available nitrogen (NO3), magnesium (Mg), or iron (Fe).  First I check my nitrate level (NO3) and verify it is in the range of 10 ppm to 30 ppm.  If it is in range then I look more closely at the leaves of the plants.  I took one of your pictures @PBA and cropped and enlarged it.  Then I added an arrow.  (See pic)

If you look at the leaf the arrow is pointing to you will see darker leaf veins with yellowing (chlorosis) of the leaf material in-between the veins.   This condition is called interveinal chlorosis and caused by one of two conditions: 1) insufficient available magnesium (Mg) or 2) insufficient available iron (Fe).  But which one is it you ask?  If the condition shows up on older leaves but new leaves look 'normal' then the likely issue is magnesium (Mg) related.  When the condition shows up on newer leaves then insufficient available iron(Fe) is the likely cause.

It is difficult to tell from photos but in the photos that were provided it looks like it is the newer leaves that are being affected so if it were my tank I would look first at insufficient available iron (Fe) as the likely cause.  Please note I am saying 'insufficient available iron' and not saying 'not enough iron being dosed' - what is the difference?  Although the most common reason for a nutrient deficiency is not dosing enough however sometimes an excess of other nutrients effect the uptake of a nutrients making it unavailable to the plant.  Also sometimes it is the water parameters that effect the availability of a nutrients.  This is the case with iron (Fe) especially.

There are several types of iron the most common and least expensive is EDTA chelated iron and it is the one most commonly used in fertilizers.  However EDTA chelated iron has one shortfall, it's availability is very sensitive to the pH of a tank.  (See chart below).

As you can see the EDTA chelated iron is 100% available at a pH of 6.0 however it drops off sharply as the pH of a tank increase above pH@6.2 to the point that less than 10% of the iron is available when the pH is above 7.0 (neutral).  I see shrimp in your tank so I am guessing your pH is above 7.0 to avoid issues with the shrimp.  If this is the case then to provide the iron the plants require I suggest dosing an iron supplement that is more readily available to plants when the pH is alkaline.  In conjunction with the Easy Green dosing you are doing now I suggest using Seachem Iron to provide addition iron in your tank.  Seachem Iron is made using Ferrous Gluconate which plants readily uptake even at higher pH levels.  I recommend dosing per the instructions on the bottle one a week which will provide about 0.26 ppm of available iron to your tank.

Now the hard part...........waiting.  Dose the Seachem Iron for at least a month and watch the new leaves that emerge after you starting dosing the additional iron.  DO NOT WATCH THE EXISTING LEAVES THEY WILL NOT IMPROVE AND MAY DECLINE FURTHER.  After a month or so look closely at the new leaves of the plants.  Do they look greener; more healthy?  If so you are on the right path.  You may also notice an increase of the growth rate of all the plants in your tank since insufficient available iron prevents the production of chlorophyll which gives plants the green color and allows the plant to make the glucose (sugar) that it needs for growth.  Hope this helps! -Roy

 

[PBA]

Thanks so much for the info that was wonderful. My nitrates are between 10-25 ppm, my PH is around 6.8ish.  If I may pick your brain further, can red plants cause there to not be enough iron for others? I have my lights pretty high for my Bacopa Caroliniana and its all deep red. Could that or the high light be doing anything?  I have a bottle of easy iron since you didn't mention that I assume that wouldn't work due to what its made with? 

 

Edit: I just checked and it says easy Iron is also made from Ferrous Gluconate. I used to use it on my bacopa and a few other red plants in that tank.  Maybe I shouldn't have stopped.  I was having a bit of an algae battle and I thought the iron was what was helping it along.

Edited November 14, 2023 by PBA

[Seattle_Aquarist]

Hi @Pepere,

Good question!  The purpose of chelation is to hold the iron (Fe) in solution so it is available to the plants.  The EDTA chelate maintains a good bond with the iron (Fe) when the pH is 6.0 or less.  However as the pH increases from that point the bond between the chelate and the iron weakens and breaks allowing the iron to precipitate out of solution and it becomes unavailable to the plants.  Per a Michigan State University study:

"EDTA strongly holds iron in solution up to pH 6.0, but by pH 6.5, almost one-half the iron is precipitated, and by pH 7.0, almost none of the iron is available to plants."

Therefore, if dosing ETDA chelated iron we want to do it when the pH of the tank is acidic, the more acidic the better.  If the ETDA chelated iron is dosed when the pH is high the bond between the chelate and iron molecules is broken, the iron precipitates out of solution and is not available to the plants.   In my tanks the fish are of primary concern so I just dose iron (Fe) that is compatible with the pH.  Actually I make up my own mix of micro-nutrients that consists of:
4 parts Plantex CSM+B (which contains EDTA iron plus other micro-nutrients (B, Fe, Mg, Mn, Mo, Z)
1 part Ferrous Gluconate
1 part DTPA Chelated Iron

So, basically if you want EDTA chelated iron to be available to the plants dose it when the pH is acidic, otherwise it will not be available.  Hope this helps! -Roy

 

[nabokovfan87]

Given all the moss.... You likely have a tank that needs that iron dosing.

What is your GH and KH in this tank?