Recommended Shrimp For My Tank

[TimmG]

Sorry for the possibly long post. I live on the east coast and use well water. I have relatively low tech tanks. In the process of starting a new 15 gallon. The tank in question today is my fully cycled, 2yo 10 gallon pictured below. I have some neons and snails in this one along with some plants as you can see. I used to have neocaridinas but they have since passed. I would like to get back into shrimp. My well water parameters are GH 20, KH 11, PH 6.8-7. My tank parameters are GH 18, KH 6, PH 7.8-8.2, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 40ppm. I currently have crushed coral mixed in with my intert white gravel due to the old house I was living in having super soft water. Now I have the opposite issue. Anyways I want to get back into shrimp. And I was wondering, to do a low tech set up what shrimp would you recommend with my parameters? For shrimp and snails what substrate do yall suggest? If I got a substrate that buffers like Ultum Nature Systems would that help with Neos? Or would it buffer my PH so much that it would be better for caridinas? I want to use my waters parameters as much as I can.

[Guppysnail]

I also live on the east coast. My water is similar to yours. My neocaridina consistently overpopulate. Key is to buy from someone with similar parameters or a store close to you. 
 

Any inert substrate will be just fine. I use both gravel and sand. I’m unfamiliar with active buffering substrates. 

[TimmG]

On 11/3/2023 at 2:25 PM, Guppysnail said:

I also live on the east coast. My water is similar to yours. My neocaridina consistently overpopulate. Key is to buy from someone with similar parameters or a store close to you. 
 

Any inert substrate will be just fine. I use both gravel and sand. I’m unfamiliar with active buffering substrates. 

Ok thank you. I however do like the rounded ball look of the Ultum Nature Systems and the like. I'm not interested in any of the other active substrates except the ones that look like rounded clay balls. Simply for aesthetic reasons. If I can keep Neos (which are cheaper) within my homes water parameters with inert substrate I will. The plants I have seem to be doing well even without any extra fertilizer within this white gravel/coral mix. I will be switching over to black substrate either just black seachem, or black seachem/ seachem sand mix to allow roots to have stuff to grab onto. I think without the coral the GH will buffer down naturally overtime. 

[Kit Craft]

My water is about 8.2 PH out of the tap but settles at about 7.8 in the tank. Also, on the east coast. My GH and KH are a wee bit higher than yours though. I recently started keeping Orange Pumpkin Neo's and they seem to be doing okay. I lost two in the first 24 hours but none since and I even have a few babies kicking around in there. But I am 100% new to keeping shrimp and am just sharing what is currently going on for me. 

That said, if you like the round ball substrate Aqueon makes a Shrimp and Plant substrate that is said to be inert clay, but I don't have experience with it. 

[TimmG]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:09 PM, Kit Craft said:

My water is about 8.2 PH out of the tap but settles at about 7.8 in the tank. Also, on the east coast. My GH and KH are a wee bit higher than yours though. I recently started keeping Orange Pumpkin Neo's and they seem to be doing okay. I lost two in the first 24 hours but none since and I even have a few babies kicking around in there. But I am 100% new to keeping shrimp and am just sharing what is currently going on for me. 

That said, if you like the round ball substrate Aqueon makes a Shrimp and Plant substrate that is said to be inert clay, but I don't have experience with it. 

Thank you. I will look into it.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:11 AM, TimmG said:

My well water parameters are GH 20, KH 11, PH 6.8-7. My tank parameters are GH 18, KH 6, PH 7.8-8.2, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 40ppm.

With that GH/KH I would tend to stick towards just the amano shrimp.  They can handle pretty hard water and the PH is the only real concern there.  You could look into some of the warmer water shrimp, saluwesi, but they are a lot higher sensitivity than something like neocaridina. 

Before you add any shrimp, for the sake of their pattern and color development I would add a black background.  I run white/bright sand on my tank, but having the black background has been proven to allow them to color up well.  The dark substrate + dark background is best, but I think (and have done so) that the background itself is enough.

If you can use RO to cut the hardness of the water, maybe that's an option to get you down towards the neocaridina range.  Especially on a smaller tank like this, you can have the water on hand for the changes.

On 11/3/2023 at 12:09 PM, Kit Craft said:

My water is about 8.2 PH out of the tap but settles at about 7.8 in the tank. Also, on the east coast. My GH and KH are a wee bit higher than yours though. I recently started keeping Orange Pumpkin Neo's and they seem to be doing okay. I lost two in the first 24 hours but none since and I even have a few babies kicking around in there. But I am 100% new to keeping shrimp and am just sharing what is currently going on for me. 

That said, if you like the round ball substrate Aqueon makes a Shrimp and Plant substrate that is said to be inert clay, but I don't have experience with it. 

Great point.  Using an active substrate might be a good option to drop the KH for you.  It also gives you the option for some pretty good plant choices that like to feed from the roots.  All that being said, if you're topping off with tap with that GH/KH it will get to a point where it's an issue for you over time. 

On 11/3/2023 at 11:25 AM, Guppysnail said:

Any inert substrate will be just fine. I use both gravel and sand. I’m unfamiliar with active buffering substrates. 

My shrimp are on both, it's not really an issue either way.  As long as the water is where it needs to be, shrimp can be pretty forgiving with the substrate.  They just may or may not need a feeding dish (usually recommended) depending on how chunky the size is.

  

On 11/3/2023 at 11:11 AM, TimmG said:

I currently have crushed coral mixed in with my intert white gravel due to the old house I was living in having super soft water. Now I have the opposite issue. Anyways I want to get back into shrimp. And I was wondering, to do a low tech set up what shrimp would you recommend with my parameters? For shrimp and snails what substrate do yall suggest? If I got a substrate that buffers like Ultum Nature Systems would that help with Neos? Or would it buffer my PH so much that it would be better for caridinas? I want to use my waters parameters as much as I can.

My well water parameters are
GH 20,
KH 11,
PH 6.8-7.

My tank parameters are
GH 18,
KH 6,
PH 7.8-8.2, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm, Nitrate 40ppm

Hmm, good question. 

Step 1 for me would be to test the GH/KH of the tap water and see how far off that is from the tank with the coral into it (which you've done).  Next would be to get the fish to some sort of a temporary setup (QT bin) so that you can pull the substrate and all that stuff easily.  If you need to do a few water changes, if you go for an active substrate, then you'd want to see where things balance out at.  From that you can see a KH of 6 vs. a KH of 11, so I would expect the PH to drop well into the neocaridina ranges and safe for amanos.  You can try an off-gas test as well.

(take your tap water, aerate it for 24 hours and then test it for KH/GH/PH and see what things settle out as.  This is what your tank should be with an inert substrate, no coral or soil)

In my case, I have generally low PH, KH low, GH is slightly higher.  With the contrasoil (UNS active substrate) that stuff does exactly what it says it would do and it has balanced out right below 7 PH and everything is back to what my tap water is.  KH or GH might be slightly lower, but that's very minor.  The longer the substrate is in the tank, the less likely it is to drop the buffering parameters.

If you're starting at a very high GH/KH, then I would expect it to drop, but I cannot say how much and for how long.  I can only really say that it would be "less of an impact" longer term than something that starts with lower parameters.  Essentially, with water changes you'll be adding so much in that you'll fill up the CEC on the substrate quicker and things would eventually go back to towards that mid-high 7's range.

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[TimmG]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:59 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

With that GH/KH I would tend to stick towards just the amano shrimp.  They can handle pretty hard water and the PH is the only real concern there.  You could look into some of the warmer water shrimp, saluwesi, but they are a lot higher sensitivity than something like neocaridina. 

Before you add any shrimp, for the sake of their pattern and color development I would add a black background.  I run white/bright sand on my tank, but having the black background has been proven to allow them to color up well.  The dark substrate + dark background is best, but I think (and have done so) that the background itself is enough.

If you can use RO to cut the hardness of the water, maybe that's an option to get you down towards the neocaridina range.  Especially on a smaller tank like this, you can have the water on hand for the changes.

Great point.  Using an active substrate might be a good option to drop the KH for you.  It also gives you the option for some pretty good plant choices that like to feed from the roots.  All that being said, if you're topping off with tap with that GH/KH it will get to a point where it's an issue for you over time. 

Thank you for the great info. I've been thinking of doing a black substrate which will make the plants pop. That's why I'm interested in the Ultum Nature System substrate because it has 3 sizes of black beads. But that cuts out certain colors of shrimp like the blue, and black Neos. Cherries are the cheapest on the wallet, and I'm not the biggest fan of the colors orange and yellow. The other shrimps like caridinas they are more expensive so I'd have less of them, and I pretty sure I would have to chase parameters more. What do you think my tank parameters would hover around if I used the Ultum Nature System substrate? 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:10 PM, TimmG said:

That's why I'm interested in the Ultum Nature System substrate because it has 3 sizes of black beads.

The normal size and the fine is pretty good.  The fine is what I have in mine and it seems like "extra fine" to the eye.  I would recommend sticking to that size or larger.

On 11/3/2023 at 9:10 PM, TimmG said:

What do you think my tank parameters would hover around if I used the Ultum Nature System substrate? 

I edited / added a bit of detail to the last post at the end there. My apologies! I tried to answer this and how I would proceed forward to "get ready" for shrimp.  Part of that is allowing the fish to get used to lower KH as well as bringing in the shrimp at the right KH.

KH aside though.... Your issue might be the GH in the end.  12-14 is about the max I would recommend  for neocaridina.  Amanos can go higher.  Neos I prefer to recommend a range of ~8-9.

Edited November 4, 2023 by nabokovfan87

[TimmG]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:13 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

The normal size and the fine is pretty good.  The fine is what I have in mine and it seems like "extra fine" to the eye.  I would recommend sticking to that size or larger.

I edited / added a bit of detail to the last post at the end there. My apologies! I tried to answer this and how I would proceed forward to "get ready" for shrimp.  Part of that is allowing the fish to get used to lower KH as well as bringing in the shrimp at the right KH.

KH aside though.... Your issue might be the GH in the end.  12-14 is about the max I would recommend  for neocaridina.  Amanos can go higher.  Neos I prefer to recommend a range of ~8-9.

Thank you. I went back and checked and saw I missed most of your last post. I apologize. Thank you for all the great info. I am planning on the 10 gallon only being for shrimp and snails, no fish. The neons are going to migrate down to my 15 gallon tank which is cycling now. No coral just black and neon gravel (glo tank for the kids.) It just passed the bacteria bloom stage. The tank came all green and nasty with 4 poor glo tetras in it. They look a lot better now with clean water even if the parameters aren't perfect and haven't leveled out yet. I plan on purchasing plants and adding a few hardy ones to the 15 gallon to help with the nitrates. The white gravel mixed with coral will also migrate down into the 15 gallon to help the snails with their minerals.

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:50 PM, TimmG said:

Thank you for all the great info. I am planning on the 10 gallon only being for shrimp and snails, no fish. The neons are going to migrate down to my 15 gallon tank which is cycling now. No coral just black and neon gravel (glo tank for the kids.) It just passed the bacteria bloom stage. The tank came all green and nasty with 4 poor glo tetras in it. They look a lot better now with clean water even if the parameters aren't perfect and haven't leveled out yet. I plan on purchasing plants and adding a few hardy ones to the 15 gallon to help with the nitrates. The white gravel mixed with coral will also migrate down into the 15 gallon to help the snails with their minerals.

Sounds good.  The sooner you get fish and substrate moved, then you can just run this tank bare bottom and keep it going while you try to see where the water settles out at.  In the meantime, try to track down a piece of mopani or something that you like for the future shrimp to graze on and work on the background (vinyl film works great!)

Let me know if you need anything or have any further questions.

[TimmG]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:15 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Let me know if you need anything or have any further questions.

Sorry for the late response. I tried to respond in my works break room but without service it logged me off. 

I will happily ask for advice. I don't pretend to know anything about this hobby. I have learned things. But I'm no where near educated enough. I actually remember you helping me out when I first started on here. I was chasing parameters, and losing mollies along the way to do so. I came here frustrated and discouraged and this group really helped me to trudge on. And the one thing I can say I picked up and it's how I operate my tank(s) is to just leave it. Until the move, my 10 gallon never got water changes. Just top offs. Everything ran great, and I'm pretty sure if I didn't have the coral in the tank it would still be great with the new water I'm using. I only asked about the substrate because I don't know what/how much it's going to do to my water. And I didn't want to use it and ruin my tank. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:06 PM, TimmG said:

I only asked about the substrate because I don't know what/how much it's going to do to my water. And I didn't want to use it and ruin my tank. 

Agreed. It's hard to know with absolute certainty what the end result would be. It would be something where you do have some advantages to trying it out. The contrasoil is good stuff. I definitely was happy to use it in my tank.

 

On 11/3/2023 at 11:06 PM, TimmG said:

I came here frustrated and discouraged and this group really helped me to trudge on. And the one thing I can say I picked up and it's how I operate my tank(s) is to just leave it.

Don't be afraid of water changes and maintenance, but yeah... It's a great community and has been very helpful for myself as well.  Very awesome to hear the positive thoughts on the forum here and it's something that we all realize that the more people with success, the better the hobby is for it.

[Lennie]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:25 PM, Guppysnail said:

I also live on the east coast. My water is similar to yours. My neocaridina consistently overpopulate. Key is to buy from someone with similar parameters or a store close to you. 
 

Any inert substrate will be just fine. I use both gravel and sand. I’m unfamiliar with active buffering substrates. 

I agree with Gup. I have neos in 10 or maybe more tank. Softwater hard water low ph low kh high kh ph... they don't care. They breed well, do well. Don't worry much about parameters when it comes to neos until it is too extreme. And unless you wanna aim for extremely high survival rate in a breeding project, which is already not that possible with fish in.

I kept and bred mine between 6.0-8.0ph, 0-20kh, and anything from very soft water to up to 13-14 gh. My tap tds without adding gh+ reads 300ish meanwhile my RO only reads 23-24. I have a water softener. Aquasoil tanks, inert substrates... I have them everywhere. 

I usually setup a tank based on my fish's breeding needs, any neos do well basically anywhere for me. 

I just make sure they have a good diet, and that's basically it.

In fact, I noticed there are 2 neocaridinas in my quarantine tank couple days ago, where I used high dose of aquarium salt for diseases and antibiotics. I was lazy emptying after Im done and guess what. There I found two babies obviously jumped into the net while I was catching fish. They are alive, in that concentration with no filter or feeding even for over a month, grew up even. Acting super healthy and well.

So I am ofcourse not trying to say to put them in a tank with undesirable conditions. But I'm trying to say, based on my experience of 10+ tanks and very wide range of parameters, they are just okay with it. Stability and good diet. Keep them healthy

 

P.s: Are you sure the heater is safe to use that way? All my heaters suggest *at least* that glass part to be totally submerged. Make sure you are using it correctly to prevent potential accidents and injuries

Edited November 4, 2023 by Lennie

[TimmG]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:58 AM, Lennie said:

P.s: Are you sure the heater is safe to use that way? All my heaters suggest *at least* that glass part to be totally submerged. Make sure you are using it correctly to prevent potential accidents and injuries

Yes I am sure. My heater has a line on it that says "water level" and my water fluctuates right below or above that line. Thanks for the concern though.