Help! Gourami, cory and oto issues in my tank

[Jabubaoski]

Hi all, I have a 29g community tank, my various issues are below, thanks in advance! Tank is 1+ year old and heavily planted. 

#1

The 2 thick lip sunset gouramis are new to replace my trio of honey gouramis that all died within a few days of each other of a mysterious wasting away illness that impacted no-one else (they lived with me for a year). I was told these guys were sunset honeys but they are more aggressive than my honeys. I picked 2 with rounded caudals but I think they were just worn, I thought they are both males after they settled in because they changed colors to brown/black from red/orange, but they’re exhibiting mating behavior (I caught them doing the mating dance where one cups the other for a minute, but cannot attach the video for some reason)! Pix attached, any help with gender would be very helpful! I am not sure if I should keep them? They spar constantly and edge the poor corys from food a lot. #1 hangs up at the top a lot but I dont really see a bubble nest. #1 is constantly beating up #2 but #2 comes back for more. 

Culprit 1:

Culprit 2:

#2

I lost an oto 2 weeks ago who looked to be egg bound - swollen yellow belly flecked with blood, my guess is she couldn’t lay eggs and died. She was with me for 1 year and was healthy and fat. I am seeing another chunky oto with yellow in her belly, is she gravid? I don’t want to lose another one and not sure what I can do to help? I have only 2 otos now. 

#3

I got 6 juliis who turned out to be false juliis, no matter - I love them the same. Lost 2 after a few days, they did not look to be physically ill, just a bit skinny. The remaining 4 seem to be active and ok after 1 week, except 1 is looking very chunky and can’t even lay flat on the sand. It’s fairly active but takes long breaks. Is this normal?

[Cinnebuns]

#1:  yes, those are thick lipped gourami which is a different species from honey gourami. They get larger and have a bit more personality. They are my favorite gourami!  Culprit 1 appears to either be a female or a young male who is not yet mature. It's hard to tell. Culprit 2 appears to be a developing male. It's not always easy to tell size from pics, but they don't appear to yet be full sized. Thick lipped do get slightly larger than honey. If the behavior you are describing is that one will chase the other, it will dart away and sometimes go back and forth, this is normal. Thick lipped gourami do this little chase game with each other. It's more typical for the male to chase the female but I have seen it go both ways. 

Edit to add:  I just realized, did you say BOTH of them turned brown?  Males will turn brown when they are wanting to spawn. It's their breeding colors. If they both did then it is possible they are both males but the one just isn't fully developed yet. That then males the embrace thing you saw confusing unless it was something else. 

#2 I'm sorry I'm having a hard time seeing it. Hopefully someone else can chime in here. 

#3:  Female cories are rounded at the bottom and do not sit flat on the substrate. This is because of carrying eggs. The more eggs they are carrying, the larger and more round they get. She looks very plump with eggs. It's possible she's about to spawn or it's also possible there is something else going on. I'm not confident enough to pick which though. 

@Colu you might be of help here for both #2 and #3. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Cinnebuns

[Cinnebuns]

 

On 10/23/2023 at 3:26 PM, Jabubaoski said:

but cannot attach the video for some reason

To get a video on the forums you need to upload it to YouTube and the link it here. 

Here is how you sex them. See how the back of this dorsal is rounded?  That indicates female or a developing male. 

Here the back of the dorsal is pointed which indicates male. 

 

 

[Colu]

Weight loss and sunken belly are a sign of wasting disease that what probably killed your group of honey gouramis I couldn't rule a parasitic infections with the two Cory's you lossed with them being skinny what I would do is treat with expel p once a week for 3 weeks the Otto's probably carrying eggs I would monitor if it doesn't pass the eggs and get more bloated I would do an Epsom salt baths 1 table spoon for 5 gallons for no more than 15 minutes for 5 days as Epsom salt baths as a muscle relaxant  at that level it safe level for your Otto @Jabubaoski

[Jabubaoski]

On 10/24/2023 at 6:10 AM, Cinnebuns said:

#1:  yes, those are thick lipped gourami which is a different species from honey gourami. They get larger and have a bit more personality. They are my favorite gourami!  Culprit 1 appears to either be a female or a young male who is not yet mature. It's hard to tell. Culprit 2 appears to be a developing male. It's not always easy to tell size from pics, but they don't appear to yet be full sized. Thick lipped do get slightly larger than honey. If the behavior you are describing is that one will chase the other, it will dart away and sometimes go back and forth, this is normal. Thick lipped gourami do this little chase game with each other. It's more typical for the male to chase the female but I have seen it go both ways. 

Edit to add:  I just realized, did you say BOTH of them turned brown?  Males will turn brown when they are wanting to spawn. It's their breeding colors. If they both did then it is possible they are both males but the one just isn't fully developed yet. That then males the embrace thing you saw confusing unless it was something else. 

#2 I'm sorry I'm having a hard time seeing it. Hopefully someone else can chime in here. 

#3:  Female cories are rounded at the bottom and do not sit flat on the substrate. This is because of carrying eggs. The more eggs they are carrying, the larger and more round they get. She looks very plump with eggs. It's possible she's about to spawn or it's also possible there is something else going on. I'm not confident enough to pick which though. 

@Colu you might be of help here for both #2 and #3. 

Thanks @Colu and @Cinnebuns

I uploaded the mating/fighting video, I caught them like this 2x yesterday (that’s just when I was looking, maybe there was more). They chase each other and wrestle a lot outside of this, which is behavior i’ve seen with my honeys but these guys seem more intense. 

The interesting thing is #1 is who does the guarding of the top left quadrant of the tank (the one with the rounded caudal that you and I thought could be female), #2 (pointed caudal and suspected immature male) is more interested in food but does come around to make an appearance to #1 and then chasing ensues. #1 also seeks out #2 to beat up/chase even when #2 is minding its business elsewhere in the tank. And yes, they both got the brown/black coloration after a few days, especially #1, you can see the caudal fins and back fins flecked with a lot of black, when they first came home the fins were white/transparent and their bodies were orange/red. 

More angle of #1

Mo

More of #2:

Mating/fighting video:

 

 

[Cinnebuns]

That does look like mating behavior but no eggs were released. I'm kind of suspecting that maybe #1 is a male that hasn't fully developed. This may be more of a dominance display than actual mating. 

[Jabubaoski]

Thanks, it did look like the mating videos I found on Youtube so I am not going nuts! 

Is it safe to keep both in the same tank? It’s only a 29g albeit it’s heavily planted with places to hide. My LFS said they’d take 1 if not both back if it doesn’t work out.