Sick betta fish, potential gill problems?

[Tam]

Hey all, I'm back again with betta issues. I'm beginning to think I either have no luck with bettas or I'm doing something wrong. I've only had my betta Izumi for two months and he's showing signs of some kind of illness. It's different this time from what I experienced with my two previous bettas, Jupiter and Lucien. I first noticed a change in Izumi's swimming, he was holding still and just floating around more hanging out at the bottom of his tank. Then he started doing something with his gills that he wasn't before, sort of fanning them a lot and seeming to not be in control of flaring as much, like he couldn't keep them closed/flat, I don't know how to explain it. I guess he seems to be breathing harder, and his swimming is also less coordinated. He's still interested in eating, still interactive when I come up to the tank, very aware of my movements when I'm in his line of sight, but clearly something is off so I decided to be proactive with treatment. So far when I've had a fish show signs of something being up my intuition has been correct but my interventions haven't actually saved them. Of course I checked the water parameters and everything was good. So I put him in a quarantine tank with aquarium salt, 1 tsp per gallon. I also did a course of maracyn, thinking there could be some kind of bacterial infection. After a couple days in the QT the gill thing stopped, and when the 5 days of maracyn was up I put him back in his tank, everything was good and his behavior was back to normal for like a day and a half before he started showing signs of it again. This time I decided to do the second round of maracyn in his actual tank thinking maybe it wasn't enough since he did improve, and I had to change the water every day in the QT because for some reason while the ph straight out of my tap is 8.0 after a mere 24 hours in the QT it would be up to 8.4 or higher and I can't figure out why. The ph in his tank is around 7.6-7.8. I really didn't like not being in control of the ph and not knowing what was causing it to rise. I also added 2sp of aquarium salt to his tank which is a 7.5 gallon. Anyway, 3 days into the second round of treatment he was only getting worse, his swimming more uncoordinated, resting a lot, fanning his gills and seeming to have more trouble with breathing, though he's still active when I come up to him and eating. SO I thought maybe it was the aquarium salt that had actually been helping him and he needs it at the higher concentration? Today he went back into the QT with the higher salt concentration and I'm finished up the last two days of the 2nd round of maracyn in there, though at this point I don't think it's actually helping him. I also increased the temp of the tank from the usual 78 to 80 degrees. I'll try to take photo/video of his condition later when I can and add them but I wanted to just get this post out there to see if anyone has any ideas what's wrong and how I could potentially treat him. I have another betta who I've had for 3 months and he seems to be fine. Reading this back his symptoms all sound pretty vague and unspecific but maybe someone else here has more experience and can weigh in.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong because I can't seem to keep bettas healthy. I clean tanks weekly without fail, regularly check the water, add indian almond leaves, it's not like I'm neglecting them! But the time I have them with me keeps getting shorter and it's really upsetting, they're my pets and I care about them. I feel guilty thinking if I hadn't gotten them and they went to someone else then they probably wouldn't die so soon. I see other people keep bettas for years no problem, I try to do everything right but my oldest betta I only had for a year and 4 months. It's really discouraging, I love my little guys 😢

[CJs Aquatics]

I’ve struggled with bettas as well your not alone and it’s very nice to see how much you care about them and how proactive you are. My first thought wouldn’t have been bacterial but perhaps parasitic or fungal as the “not being in control of the fin flaring/ gill localization” sounds almost like an itch it can’t scratch to me but I’m absolutely no expert especially with regards to bettas. @Colu may be able to help you they’ve helped me before a few different times. Regardless of the outcome which I hope is for the best. 

[Tam]

Thanks for the comment @CJs Aquatics - it’s good to know I’m not the only one who struggles with bettas. I swear the ones I used to keep in horrible condition before I knew anything like 15+ years ago lived longer in their half gallon ammonia baths than the bettas I’ve kept in the past couple years in their carefully cycled 7+ gallons. Though my betta Phthalo seems fine, but he’s an alien betta so maybe less inbred?? I don’t know. I can’t assume he won’t also start having problems.

I thought bacterial because I think that was what was wrong with my first two bettas and since maracyn is a broad spectrum antibiotic I thought I’d try it. I do have a couple other meds on hand including one for fungal problems.
 

here’s a video I took though it’s pretty hard to see what’s up with his gills, he’s too interested in me when I’m in front of the tank and he also likes to flare at my phone because it’s red. There are a couple moments where I feel like you can see what I’m talking about if you’re watching really closely. 

[Colu]

It's difficult to see what's going on with his gills if he can't close them fully there's a couple of thing that can cause that such as Gill hyperplasia which is over growth of epithelial cells or a parasitic infection such as Gill flukes some of the symptoms of gill flukes are rapid breathing hanging near the surface lethargy flashing erratic swimming loss of appetite @Tam if it were Gill flukes you would want to treat with prazipro do three full course of treatment two  weeks apart 

 

Edited August 18, 2023 by Colu

[Tam]

@Colu His symptoms / behavior change is really subtle most of the time so it's very hard to capture or even notice if you're not really acquainted with how he normally behaves. I've been observing him closely today with gill flukes and gill hyperplasia in mind and I don't really think it's gill flukes, he just doesn't really have any definitive symptoms of it, and he hasn't been doing any rubbing up against things like his gills are bothering him that way. I've noticed that the gill on the left side has a tendency to stick out more, but they're also able to be held flat against his head which leaves hyperplasia a question mark for me. He's not like, gasping for breath or anything, and while he's in the QT he seems to be more active. I do think he's constipated right now because he hasn't pooped, but he's as eager as ever to eat and he doesn't seem lethargic at all. I think the aquarium salt must really be helping him for some reason, I've read it can help with gill function but I don't know if that's the only reason he would be doing better with a higher concentration. Is there anything it could be that would be improved by aquarium salt specifically but not the antibiotic? For the time being I'm just keeping him in the QT with the salt and watching him closely. For the moment at least he hasn't gotten any worse.

[Colu]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:53 AM, Tam said:

@Colu His symptoms / behavior change is really subtle most of the time so it's very hard to capture or even notice if you're not really acquainted with how he normally behaves. I've been observing him closely today with gill flukes and gill hyperplasia in mind and I don't really think it's gill flukes, he just doesn't really have any definitive symptoms of it, and he hasn't been doing any rubbing up against things like his gills are bothering him that way. I've noticed that the gill on the left side has a tendency to stick out more, but they're also able to be held flat against his head which leaves hyperplasia a question mark for me. He's not like, gasping for breath or anything, and while he's in the QT he seems to be more active. I do think he's constipated right now because he hasn't pooped, but he's as eager as ever to eat and he doesn't seem lethargic at all. I think the aquarium salt must really be helping him for some reason, I've read it can help with gill function but I don't know if that's the only reason he would be doing better with a higher concentration. Is there anything it could be that would be improved by aquarium salt specifically but not the antibiotic? For the time being I'm just keeping him in the QT with the salt and watching him closely. For the moment at least he hasn't gotten any worse.

Aquarium salt treats bacterial infections fungal infections it can help with some types of parasite's at a high enough dose