Tam

Sad update unfortunately, Phthalo isn't getting better and declining pretty quickly now. Rapid breathing, having to frequently go up to the surface for air, he pays no attention to me at all, listlessly floats and doesn't have much strength to even swim. From my experience this is a stage that there's really isn't any coming back from. I'm so sad and discouraged, I tried really hard and on paper I do everything right with my bettas but I can't seem to keep them alive and healthy. I don't know if the expel-p would've helped if I'd done it sooner or what, I just have no idea what kills my fish each time. I'm really afraid of cross-contamination between his tank and my other betta since no treatments seem to work against it, I try really hard to avoid it but there's always some risk and it has me so paranoid. When Phthalo is gone I want to take down his tank completely and start over, but I have a couple nerite snails in there that I'm really attached to, especially the one I've had for well over two years, and I have no idea what to do with them if I take the tank down. If the snails themselves could carry whatever pathogen this is on them I can't risk putting them in any other tank where I want to have fish. I'm just so heartbroken about Phthalo, I tried so hard and was so happy when it worked at first.

Great, thanks for the response, and thanks in general for all your help. I hope I have some good news to come back with next time.

Just a little update, the meds arrived today and I dosed them right away, hoping for the best. Phthalo is still hanging on but he barely moves around at this point. I got him to eat two small pellets today but he spit out the third so I didn't give him any more than that. I looked up more about symptoms of parasites and actually think that could be the problem, hopefully it is and the treatment works. If that's the issue and he's been successfully treated @Colu do you know how long it should take for me to see any kind of improvement?

Okay, I'll give it a shot. Hopefully he holds on until I can get the meds.

He's had the pale and stringy poop since before he stopped eating. I did just manage to feed him a couple mysis shrimp but as soon as he eats his stomach immediately swells up. The first photo here is what he looks like resting at the waterline, the second photo is when I managed to get his attention and he was interested in food. I took these photos about an hour ago, so nothing in his stomach, and then the last photo is one I took about 15 minutes ago right after feeding him, you can see how bloated his stomach got immediately even after such a small amount of food. He hasn't been flaring at all so I don't think that would be the cause of the pinholes in his fins, he's mostly barely using his fins right now. I did just check the water levels again just to be sure they're still okay and everything looks fine there. I can order some Expel-P on amazon but since it's the weekend it won't get here til Tuesday. I'm willing to try whatever I can, though I don't really have much hope he's going to pull through at this point. I just don't get why the maracyn worked so amazingly well with the first dose and then never again. It seems that would mean it's bacterial, it doesn't make sense to me 😕

He's kept at 79 at the moment, normally I feed him a mixture of daphnia and pellets, right now I'm trying with the medicated frozen mysis shrimp but haven't been able to get him to eat since day before yesterday. Phthalo is an incredibly high stress fish, neurotically so, so I really don't want to take him out of his tank for epsom salt baths. Today was the third day of dosing the kanaplex and unfortunately he hasn't improved. He's still sporadically interested in me and sometimes acts like he wants to eat, but mostly he rests at the waterline or on the ground. I can really only get his attention when I catch him on the move, if he's already settled he doesn't pay any attention to me. The past two days he's been mostly at the water line. He's looking pale and I can faintly see his stress stripes at times. When he has pooped it's pale and stringy, and I noticed last night for the first time that he's getting tiny pinholes in his fins which I've never seen or heard of happening before?? Could this be some indication of what's going on? He's always been very hyper-active and kind of nuts so he's torn his fins a lot and scraped off scales, but he's never had holes in his fins, and he's not exactly moving around much at the moment. Because of his high-stress temperament and constant injuring of himself even with all the hardscape removed from his tank I never really thought he'd live very long, but still I've only had him since May, 5 months is still such a short time 😔

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get him to eat, he's barely moved around today, he just stays nestled among the plants in the same place and occasionally coming up for air. So I'm left hoping the kanaplex helps him. Not sure how long I should hold out hope for seeing improvement, with the maracyn it was after the third day that he started to improve. I don't know why it would've been effective at first and then stop working 😕

Just a little update, Phthalo was looking really bad this morning, he spent basically the whole night floating at the surface in the corner of the tank, he was pretty pale looking and really bloated. He had some poop hanging off of him, he's clearly having trouble passing bowel movements. Last I checked him he still had a little bit hanging off but still managed to get some out so he's been a bit more active. He freaked out when I did the 50% water change on his tank like I thought he would, been keeping the tank dark to help him calm down. He was even paler after that but his coloring has come back a lot since then and now that he's not as bloated, and he's been more active swimming around the tank this afternoon and evening. I dosed the kanaplex and I'll probably be able to get him to eat the mysis shrimp + metroplex this evening, but with his bloating issues I feel worried about feeding him, I don't think I'll be able to get him to eat more than once a day since he gets so bloated after and loses interest in eating or moving. I can see him a bit in the dark of the tank from where I'm sitting right now and he keeps pecking around at random things in the tank so I think he's probably ready to eat something now. I just wonder if I should feed him still when his bloating is so bad afterwards...

Great, thanks so much I'll do that! Here's hoping he'll perk up and pull through.

Okay, thanks. He's actually perked up a bit today and was excited for food and has been a bit more interactive and swimming around more. Makes me hopeful he's not beyond saving. I went ahead and just finished the last day of the maracyn, I can do the water change tomorrow and then add the kanaplex, or just immediately start on another round of the maracyn without waiting like I did the first time? I'm not sure what would be better. I fed him the medicated food from Jan earlier but I'll make up some fresh stuff when I offer him food tonight.

Thanks @Colu - is it okay for me to just suspend the maracyn and add the kanaplex without a water change or anything? And I have some metroplex + focus mixed in with some frozen mysis shrimp that I made up in January of this year, is it okay for me to use that or should I make something up fresh since it's old? I'll try to feed him twice a day when he accepts it but I'm a little worried because of the bloat issue, whenever I feed him the bloating is immediately worse.

Okay so unfortunately his symptoms came back after 3 days so I did another round of the antibiotics but he didn't really improve. After that treatment ran out I've just kept an eye on him because I don't really know what to do, but he's only gotten worse. Clamped fins again, laying around the tank, bloated as well. He seems to be struggling to swim more now than before. He's still interested in eating but because of the bloat I fasted him for a couple of days and then finally gave him a few pellets this morning because I was encouraged to see he was even still interested. He did eat, and he's sporadically interested in coming up to me but he seems worse this evening than he was this morning. I did start another round of maracyn because it worked at least at first and I thought it was better than just watching him die, today is day 4 of this latest round but he's not any better. Is there anything else I can do for him? It does seem like whatever is wrong must be bacterial, if I can get him to eat would it be good to try an antibiotic mixed in his food? I have kanaplex and metroplex on hand. I have him in his own tank rather than a quarantine tank because he's an incredibly high stress fish, even weekly tank cleanings freak him out and make him hide for a while, the only time I ever moved him to a QT he lost all his color and was swimming around frantically the whole time. I'm afraid if I stress him out further it'll just hasten whatever illness he has and kill him faster. So whatever I give him needs to be able to go in his tank, but I do have a couple nerites in there that I've had a long time and I don't know if either kanaplex or metroplex is safe for them or not. I feel bad always coming back for help here with ailing fish, I really can't seem to keep bettas healthy no matter how hard I try, it really sucks because I get so attached and really love them, I'm heartbroken every time watching them die 😢

I'm resurrecting this post in the hopes that someone will see it and respond, Phthalo became sick a little over a week ago, lethargic, clamped fins, looking pale, unresponsive to me, lying around on the bottom of his tank, not eating, slightly bloated tum, etc. so I put him through a course of maracyn which actually worked! Kind of elated because I've never had my intervention help before, but I'd say after the 5 days and the water change his behavior is completely back to normal, he's active and his colors are nice and vibrant, no clamped fins, eager and excited to eat, he's even started on a new bubble nest. I'm just wondering if I should do another 5 days of the maracyn out of an abundance of caution as today is day 7 when I should start a second round. He seems fully recovered but I'm still nervous about it. Would it be harmful in any way to just do the extra 5 days? Or should I just keep a close eye on him and give him another course if his behaviour changes again? Any insight is much appreciated!

@Colu His symptoms / behavior change is really subtle most of the time so it's very hard to capture or even notice if you're not really acquainted with how he normally behaves. I've been observing him closely today with gill flukes and gill hyperplasia in mind and I don't really think it's gill flukes, he just doesn't really have any definitive symptoms of it, and he hasn't been doing any rubbing up against things like his gills are bothering him that way. I've noticed that the gill on the left side has a tendency to stick out more, but they're also able to be held flat against his head which leaves hyperplasia a question mark for me. He's not like, gasping for breath or anything, and while he's in the QT he seems to be more active. I do think he's constipated right now because he hasn't pooped, but he's as eager as ever to eat and he doesn't seem lethargic at all. I think the aquarium salt must really be helping him for some reason, I've read it can help with gill function but I don't know if that's the only reason he would be doing better with a higher concentration. Is there anything it could be that would be improved by aquarium salt specifically but not the antibiotic? For the time being I'm just keeping him in the QT with the salt and watching him closely. For the moment at least he hasn't gotten any worse.

Thanks for the comment @CJs Aquatics - it’s good to know I’m not the only one who struggles with bettas. I swear the ones I used to keep in horrible condition before I knew anything like 15+ years ago lived longer in their half gallon ammonia baths than the bettas I’ve kept in the past couple years in their carefully cycled 7+ gallons. Though my betta Phthalo seems fine, but he’s an alien betta so maybe less inbred?? I don’t know. I can’t assume he won’t also start having problems. I thought bacterial because I think that was what was wrong with my first two bettas and since maracyn is a broad spectrum antibiotic I thought I’d try it. I do have a couple other meds on hand including one for fungal problems. here’s a video I took though it’s pretty hard to see what’s up with his gills, he’s too interested in me when I’m in front of the tank and he also likes to flare at my phone because it’s red. There are a couple moments where I feel like you can see what I’m talking about if you’re watching really closely.