Tam

Sad update unfortunately, Phthalo isn't getting better and declining pretty quickly now. Rapid breathing, having to frequently go up to the surface for air, he pays no attention to me at all, listlessly floats and doesn't have much strength to even swim. From my experience this is a stage that there's really isn't any coming back from. I'm so sad and discouraged, I tried really hard and on paper I do everything right with my bettas but I can't seem to keep them alive and healthy. I don't know if the expel-p would've helped if I'd done it sooner or what, I just have no idea what kills my fish each time. I'm really afraid of cross-contamination between his tank and my other betta since no treatments seem to work against it, I try really hard to avoid it but there's always some risk and it has me so paranoid. When Phthalo is gone I want to take down his tank completely and start over, but I have a couple nerite snails in there that I'm really attached to, especially the one I've had for well over two years, and I have no idea what to do with them if I take the tank down. If the snails themselves could carry whatever pathogen this is on them I can't risk putting them in any other tank where I want to have fish. I'm just so heartbroken about Phthalo, I tried so hard and was so happy when it worked at first.

Great, thanks for the response, and thanks in general for all your help. I hope I have some good news to come back with next time.

Just a little update, the meds arrived today and I dosed them right away, hoping for the best. Phthalo is still hanging on but he barely moves around at this point. I got him to eat two small pellets today but he spit out the third so I didn't give him any more than that. I looked up more about symptoms of parasites and actually think that could be the problem, hopefully it is and the treatment works. If that's the issue and he's been successfully treated @Colu do you know how long it should take for me to see any kind of improvement?

Okay, I'll give it a shot. Hopefully he holds on until I can get the meds.

He's had the pale and stringy poop since before he stopped eating. I did just manage to feed him a couple mysis shrimp but as soon as he eats his stomach immediately swells up. The first photo here is what he looks like resting at the waterline, the second photo is when I managed to get his attention and he was interested in food. I took these photos about an hour ago, so nothing in his stomach, and then the last photo is one I took about 15 minutes ago right after feeding him, you can see how bloated his stomach got immediately even after such a small amount of food. He hasn't been flaring at all so I don't think that would be the cause of the pinholes in his fins, he's mostly barely using his fins right now. I did just check the water levels again just to be sure they're still okay and everything looks fine there. I can order some Expel-P on amazon but since it's the weekend it won't get here til Tuesday. I'm willing to try whatever I can, though I don't really have much hope he's going to pull through at this point. I just don't get why the maracyn worked so amazingly well with the first dose and then never again. It seems that would mean it's bacterial, it doesn't make sense to me 😕

He's kept at 79 at the moment, normally I feed him a mixture of daphnia and pellets, right now I'm trying with the medicated frozen mysis shrimp but haven't been able to get him to eat since day before yesterday. Phthalo is an incredibly high stress fish, neurotically so, so I really don't want to take him out of his tank for epsom salt baths. Today was the third day of dosing the kanaplex and unfortunately he hasn't improved. He's still sporadically interested in me and sometimes acts like he wants to eat, but mostly he rests at the waterline or on the ground. I can really only get his attention when I catch him on the move, if he's already settled he doesn't pay any attention to me. The past two days he's been mostly at the water line. He's looking pale and I can faintly see his stress stripes at times. When he has pooped it's pale and stringy, and I noticed last night for the first time that he's getting tiny pinholes in his fins which I've never seen or heard of happening before?? Could this be some indication of what's going on? He's always been very hyper-active and kind of nuts so he's torn his fins a lot and scraped off scales, but he's never had holes in his fins, and he's not exactly moving around much at the moment. Because of his high-stress temperament and constant injuring of himself even with all the hardscape removed from his tank I never really thought he'd live very long, but still I've only had him since May, 5 months is still such a short time 😔

Unfortunately I haven't been able to get him to eat, he's barely moved around today, he just stays nestled among the plants in the same place and occasionally coming up for air. So I'm left hoping the kanaplex helps him. Not sure how long I should hold out hope for seeing improvement, with the maracyn it was after the third day that he started to improve. I don't know why it would've been effective at first and then stop working 😕

Just a little update, Phthalo was looking really bad this morning, he spent basically the whole night floating at the surface in the corner of the tank, he was pretty pale looking and really bloated. He had some poop hanging off of him, he's clearly having trouble passing bowel movements. Last I checked him he still had a little bit hanging off but still managed to get some out so he's been a bit more active. He freaked out when I did the 50% water change on his tank like I thought he would, been keeping the tank dark to help him calm down. He was even paler after that but his coloring has come back a lot since then and now that he's not as bloated, and he's been more active swimming around the tank this afternoon and evening. I dosed the kanaplex and I'll probably be able to get him to eat the mysis shrimp + metroplex this evening, but with his bloating issues I feel worried about feeding him, I don't think I'll be able to get him to eat more than once a day since he gets so bloated after and loses interest in eating or moving. I can see him a bit in the dark of the tank from where I'm sitting right now and he keeps pecking around at random things in the tank so I think he's probably ready to eat something now. I just wonder if I should feed him still when his bloating is so bad afterwards...

Great, thanks so much I'll do that! Here's hoping he'll perk up and pull through.

Okay, thanks. He's actually perked up a bit today and was excited for food and has been a bit more interactive and swimming around more. Makes me hopeful he's not beyond saving. I went ahead and just finished the last day of the maracyn, I can do the water change tomorrow and then add the kanaplex, or just immediately start on another round of the maracyn without waiting like I did the first time? I'm not sure what would be better. I fed him the medicated food from Jan earlier but I'll make up some fresh stuff when I offer him food tonight.

Thanks @Colu - is it okay for me to just suspend the maracyn and add the kanaplex without a water change or anything? And I have some metroplex + focus mixed in with some frozen mysis shrimp that I made up in January of this year, is it okay for me to use that or should I make something up fresh since it's old? I'll try to feed him twice a day when he accepts it but I'm a little worried because of the bloat issue, whenever I feed him the bloating is immediately worse.

Okay so unfortunately his symptoms came back after 3 days so I did another round of the antibiotics but he didn't really improve. After that treatment ran out I've just kept an eye on him because I don't really know what to do, but he's only gotten worse. Clamped fins again, laying around the tank, bloated as well. He seems to be struggling to swim more now than before. He's still interested in eating but because of the bloat I fasted him for a couple of days and then finally gave him a few pellets this morning because I was encouraged to see he was even still interested. He did eat, and he's sporadically interested in coming up to me but he seems worse this evening than he was this morning. I did start another round of maracyn because it worked at least at first and I thought it was better than just watching him die, today is day 4 of this latest round but he's not any better. Is there anything else I can do for him? It does seem like whatever is wrong must be bacterial, if I can get him to eat would it be good to try an antibiotic mixed in his food? I have kanaplex and metroplex on hand. I have him in his own tank rather than a quarantine tank because he's an incredibly high stress fish, even weekly tank cleanings freak him out and make him hide for a while, the only time I ever moved him to a QT he lost all his color and was swimming around frantically the whole time. I'm afraid if I stress him out further it'll just hasten whatever illness he has and kill him faster. So whatever I give him needs to be able to go in his tank, but I do have a couple nerites in there that I've had a long time and I don't know if either kanaplex or metroplex is safe for them or not. I feel bad always coming back for help here with ailing fish, I really can't seem to keep bettas healthy no matter how hard I try, it really sucks because I get so attached and really love them, I'm heartbroken every time watching them die 😢

I'm resurrecting this post in the hopes that someone will see it and respond, Phthalo became sick a little over a week ago, lethargic, clamped fins, looking pale, unresponsive to me, lying around on the bottom of his tank, not eating, slightly bloated tum, etc. so I put him through a course of maracyn which actually worked! Kind of elated because I've never had my intervention help before, but I'd say after the 5 days and the water change his behavior is completely back to normal, he's active and his colors are nice and vibrant, no clamped fins, eager and excited to eat, he's even started on a new bubble nest. I'm just wondering if I should do another 5 days of the maracyn out of an abundance of caution as today is day 7 when I should start a second round. He seems fully recovered but I'm still nervous about it. Would it be harmful in any way to just do the extra 5 days? Or should I just keep a close eye on him and give him another course if his behaviour changes again? Any insight is much appreciated!

@Colu His symptoms / behavior change is really subtle most of the time so it's very hard to capture or even notice if you're not really acquainted with how he normally behaves. I've been observing him closely today with gill flukes and gill hyperplasia in mind and I don't really think it's gill flukes, he just doesn't really have any definitive symptoms of it, and he hasn't been doing any rubbing up against things like his gills are bothering him that way. I've noticed that the gill on the left side has a tendency to stick out more, but they're also able to be held flat against his head which leaves hyperplasia a question mark for me. He's not like, gasping for breath or anything, and while he's in the QT he seems to be more active. I do think he's constipated right now because he hasn't pooped, but he's as eager as ever to eat and he doesn't seem lethargic at all. I think the aquarium salt must really be helping him for some reason, I've read it can help with gill function but I don't know if that's the only reason he would be doing better with a higher concentration. Is there anything it could be that would be improved by aquarium salt specifically but not the antibiotic? For the time being I'm just keeping him in the QT with the salt and watching him closely. For the moment at least he hasn't gotten any worse.

Thanks for the comment @CJs Aquatics - it’s good to know I’m not the only one who struggles with bettas. I swear the ones I used to keep in horrible condition before I knew anything like 15+ years ago lived longer in their half gallon ammonia baths than the bettas I’ve kept in the past couple years in their carefully cycled 7+ gallons. Though my betta Phthalo seems fine, but he’s an alien betta so maybe less inbred?? I don’t know. I can’t assume he won’t also start having problems. I thought bacterial because I think that was what was wrong with my first two bettas and since maracyn is a broad spectrum antibiotic I thought I’d try it. I do have a couple other meds on hand including one for fungal problems. here’s a video I took though it’s pretty hard to see what’s up with his gills, he’s too interested in me when I’m in front of the tank and he also likes to flare at my phone because it’s red. There are a couple moments where I feel like you can see what I’m talking about if you’re watching really closely.

Hey all, I'm back again with betta issues. I'm beginning to think I either have no luck with bettas or I'm doing something wrong. I've only had my betta Izumi for two months and he's showing signs of some kind of illness. It's different this time from what I experienced with my two previous bettas, Jupiter and Lucien. I first noticed a change in Izumi's swimming, he was holding still and just floating around more hanging out at the bottom of his tank. Then he started doing something with his gills that he wasn't before, sort of fanning them a lot and seeming to not be in control of flaring as much, like he couldn't keep them closed/flat, I don't know how to explain it. I guess he seems to be breathing harder, and his swimming is also less coordinated. He's still interested in eating, still interactive when I come up to the tank, very aware of my movements when I'm in his line of sight, but clearly something is off so I decided to be proactive with treatment. So far when I've had a fish show signs of something being up my intuition has been correct but my interventions haven't actually saved them. Of course I checked the water parameters and everything was good. So I put him in a quarantine tank with aquarium salt, 1 tsp per gallon. I also did a course of maracyn, thinking there could be some kind of bacterial infection. After a couple days in the QT the gill thing stopped, and when the 5 days of maracyn was up I put him back in his tank, everything was good and his behavior was back to normal for like a day and a half before he started showing signs of it again. This time I decided to do the second round of maracyn in his actual tank thinking maybe it wasn't enough since he did improve, and I had to change the water every day in the QT because for some reason while the ph straight out of my tap is 8.0 after a mere 24 hours in the QT it would be up to 8.4 or higher and I can't figure out why. The ph in his tank is around 7.6-7.8. I really didn't like not being in control of the ph and not knowing what was causing it to rise. I also added 2sp of aquarium salt to his tank which is a 7.5 gallon. Anyway, 3 days into the second round of treatment he was only getting worse, his swimming more uncoordinated, resting a lot, fanning his gills and seeming to have more trouble with breathing, though he's still active when I come up to him and eating. SO I thought maybe it was the aquarium salt that had actually been helping him and he needs it at the higher concentration? Today he went back into the QT with the higher salt concentration and I'm finished up the last two days of the 2nd round of maracyn in there, though at this point I don't think it's actually helping him. I also increased the temp of the tank from the usual 78 to 80 degrees. I'll try to take photo/video of his condition later when I can and add them but I wanted to just get this post out there to see if anyone has any ideas what's wrong and how I could potentially treat him. I have another betta who I've had for 3 months and he seems to be fine. Reading this back his symptoms all sound pretty vague and unspecific but maybe someone else here has more experience and can weigh in. I really don't know what I'm doing wrong because I can't seem to keep bettas healthy. I clean tanks weekly without fail, regularly check the water, add indian almond leaves, it's not like I'm neglecting them! But the time I have them with me keeps getting shorter and it's really upsetting, they're my pets and I care about them. I feel guilty thinking if I hadn't gotten them and they went to someone else then they probably wouldn't die so soon. I see other people keep bettas for years no problem, I try to do everything right but my oldest betta I only had for a year and 4 months. It's really discouraging, I love my little guys 😢

I can't believe you really listed all the ones I'm most interested in, those being manzanita, pacific driftwood, malaysian driftwood and ghostwood! I had no idea that ghost wood is actually just a sandblasted version of the first two. I'm really leaning towards manzanita because I feel like it's the best replacement for the look of spiderwood, if I do decide to swap them out I still have an overall look I want to achieve. Since you've used manzanita did you have any issue with the white mold growing on it? I know it's harmless but it's ugly and slimy lol Spiderwood does take forever to sink! I've always had to weigh mine down with rocks for at least a week.

I tried searching the forum to see if anyone had asked this before and didn't come up with anything so I thought I'd start a discussion! I've been in the hobby for about 2 years now and I've only ever used spiderwood but I'm interested in trying out some other wood. Right now I'm working on starting up a 16 gallon tank and I read that if you do a dark start you can minimize algae and after about a month any mold that the wood grows should have gone through its cycle and pretty much clear up, but I'm like 2+ months until keeping this tank dark and my spiderwood is still crazy full of the stuff, no matter how much I clean it off it just keeps coming back. The pieces were too large to properly boil which I don't think has helped the situation, I've never had it this bad on spiderwood in the past. From general searching around I learned that spiderwood is actually the roots of the plant and since it stores a lot of nutrients it's more likely to grow this white mold that's currently driving me nuts. I'm thinking of just swapping it out and trying out a different kind of wood and I'm currently looking into manzanita. I'm curious what kind of wood others have experience using and what your favorite is!

You nailed it @Stef - I've actually been meaning to update this post but I've been so busy. It took me a couple of days to figure this out because I've never seen a betta be so insane about glass surfing. My previous betta Jupiter did it a bit when I first got him, but never so single-mindedly that I couldn't get his attention long enough to feed him and certainly never to the extent of hurting himself. Phthalo swims himself ragged and has genuinely injured himself. I've taken out all of the hardscape and he's still managed to lose several more scales and tear his fins. I have no idea what he's even torn them on because there's just plants in there, I can only think that he's damaging them from overuse?? I don't know what to do for this fish, I feel like he's probably not going to live very long at this rate. I'm going to be keeping a low level of aquarium salt in the tank as well as the catappa leaves in the hopes it helps with healing any injuries and preventing infection/illness, but aside from that I don't know what to do that I haven't already done. I took the black background off of my tank thinking it was making the back of the glass more reflective but nothing I do seems to have any impact, I can't exactly remove the reflections, it's glass!! Getting this fish has been a total nightmare and taken all the joy out of getting a new fish, especially considered how long I built up the anticipation. I know bettas are aggressive fish but I've never seen one this insanely aggressive before, he's like a total nutcase. I've never heard of someone having a fish like this. I've had him for about a week and a half and in the last couple days he's done the glass surfing sliiiightly less, and since the daphnia I ordered finally got delivered I can actually get his attention pretty easily because he LOVES them. He's started building a bubble nest in one corner of the tank which absolutely baffles me. I took a few videos to show the shape he's in, the first two are from 2 days ago and the 3rd is from yesterday. You can see in the first two videos that he's completely torn his dorsal fin, and his fins in general are looking pretty tattered. In the 3rd video his dorsal fin seems to have fused or is holding together more, I haven't seen the split since the day it happened. I don't know how quickly their fins can heal, but I'm assuming it isn't actually reconnected. You can also see a brief glimpse of the beginnings of his bubble nest at the end of the 3rd video, which he's been working on since then. It's actually a relief seeing him add to it because at least for a moment he's holding more still and not hurting himself. If anyone has any wisdom to share on what the heck to do for this fish I'd love to hear it, as it is I'm really at a loss. I've kept the lights dimmed and even completely off for a couple days but it didn't actually impact his behavior at all, and I can't just never have the light on in the tank because of the plants. As soon as I can I'm going to order some more stems plants to really pack the back and sides of the tank with to try to block some of the reflections, since he seems to do it slightly less on the left side of my tank which is the most heavily planted, but that's not actually going to make him magically stop.

@colu Okay, I'll add the salt and keep down the lights, I was thinking that myself, I just don't know what would've stressed him out so abruptly when nothing had changed and he'd been settling in well and I'm worried about him hurting himself. I don't really know what else to do but put him back in the 10 gallon and watch and wait. I'll post back here if anything changes.

@Colu I'm actually on well water so I don't have any chlorine, I've just always used a conditioner as a just in case sort of thing. Right now I'm thinking of doing another water change on the 10 gallon and putting him back in because his behaviour hasn't improved in the temporary tank and it's just really stressing him out to be in a bare tank like that. My 10 gallon is heavily planted and I know aquarium salt isn't great for plants, is there an amount that would be safe that could still be helpful? And does it hurt snails?

All right so to know the whole history of what's going on I have this post here that talks particularly at the end about what to do with my empty 10 gallon aquarium after having my betta die in it of some unknown illness, to sum it up I ultimately decided to let it sit for several months without an occupant - it's been empty since the beginning of november and my other fish who died of potentially the same illness but was in another tank died in january, so any further contamination from illness should have been at the least 4-5 months ago. I also actually swapped the tank itself out because it had a leak and I replaced the substrate, but I reused all the same hardscape plants and filter. I also treated the entire tank with maracyn a couple months back and have been making a catappa leaf tea and using it during my weekly water changes for any antibacterial/antifungal properties etc. Now onto my actual current problem, I finally took the plunge figuring the tank couldn't get any safer at this point and I just got a new betta on Tuesday the 9th of May so it hasn't been a full week yet as of making this post. He's a really beautiful blue alien betta, quite small so I'm assuming young?? I was actually planning on making an intro post for him on here so I could finally have a post that wasn't asking for help with a fish problem, but here we are again. Everything seemed fine for the first 2 days, he was warming up to me, got all his color back after the stress of the drive, was becoming more interactive. Then he just seemed to get kind of manic, like he just swims and swims and swims endlessly and reckless, particularly in a tight lap at the back of the tank, back and forth over and over, pushing against the glass. I thought maybe there was something off with the water parameters and he was trying to get away from it but when I tested there was 0ppm ammonia nitrite and nitrate, ph was between 7.8 - 8 which is what it usually is, kh was on the higher end of medium, I don't remember the exact numbers on the strip because this was a couple days ago, but basically they were all exactly the same way they always are when I check. I noticed in the evening that he looked all rough and scraped up, like maybe he got stuck somewhere and had to squeeze his way out, the only thing I could think of was that he squished himself between one of my seiryuu stone and the driftwood, so I just too the big seiryuu out of the tank entirely. Then the next morning, which was yesterday, I did about a 40% water change just in case there's something I can't test for that's setting him off, I thought maybe one of the things I add for my plants or something even though I think I underdose those if anything. He was really interactive while I did the water change and very curious about what I was doing, no problem with my hand in the tank, and then afterwards he seemed to be calmer to me. I didn't put in the catappa tea right away because I wanted it to steep for longer, and I didn't put in any additives for the plants, just the water conditioner. Then in the late afternoon I put in the catappa tea along with the leaves hoping to really up the tannins, and I'm not sure if I'm reading into it or not but it seemed after that he started acting more erratic again but I don't know why that would cause it?? Yesterday evening when I got up to check on him after I had dinner he was doing those really tight fast laps in the back of the tank over and over not slowing down or stopping and he was so single-minded about it I couldn't even get his attention. His gills were working hard and as I watched him I saw him bump into a little branch from my driftwood that touched the back of the tank like 4-5 different times, he wasn't watching where he was going and I was afraid he was going to keep hurting himself, so I set up my 3 gallon temp tank and scooped him up in a cup and put him in there, thinking I just needed to get him out of the 10 gallon if there's something going on with it. Moving him immediately made him start losing his color, it seems wild type bettas show there stress in their coloring very easily. The problem is after moving him it hasn't seemed to help, he still swims around like crazy pushing against the walls and never seemed to stop much or slow down. I honestly don't know if he ever rests. I've tried to feed him a bit but he's been kind of difficult to feed from the beginning, he tends to spit things out, eat it again, spit it out, etc. I've gotten him to actually ingest a few pellets but not many. So BASICALLY, I have no idea what to do with him now??? If his behaviour is the same both in the 10 gallon and in the temporary tank should I just put him back in the 10 gallon where he'll at least be less stressed? But there is still more he can bump into in there. I have a 7.5 gallon cube I'm going to set up ASAP and put him in there but it's still going to be a few days at least. I'll do another water change on the 10 gallon just in case it was the tea somehow, I'll actually probably do another water change today and then again tomorrow, like maybe the leaves were contaminated with something?? I need advice because I'm totally at a loss for what to do! I thought that if there was some pathogen in there still lurking from the previous fish that it would take a while for it to actually affect a new fish, and then I knew what signs and behaviors to look out for but neither of my other bettas ever acted like this. I've got a couple photos of what he looks like after getting roughed up. He seems to have lost a scale, and it looks almost like he "scratched his paint" though the silver scratches have faded completely now, his scales still look roughened up on his head. I don't know if there anything I should treat him with?? Maybe just aquarium salt? I don't want to jump the gun and just start dumping meds on this fish, and I'd really like to move him around as little as possible because it stresses him out so much which can make him more susceptible to illness too, and it's honestly alarming to see him immediately go pale and show his stress stripes, even when I'm anticipating it and know the cause. I think he's mostly got his color back as of this morning, and maybe seems a little less manic but I'm not sure. I didn't mean for this to get so long so if anyone has actually managed to read through all this I'm hoping for some advice!! Thanks in advance, at some point I'd really like to not have to post about fish problems on here 😓 Here's a picture of his other side from before whatever he did to himself in the previous photos, but I unfortunately don't have one from the same side. You can see he a had little silver scratches here too but those seem to fade pretty quickly. I've never had a wild type betta before so I don't know what to expect from them, I didn't think it would be all that different?? His name is Phthalo by the way, after the shade of blue. Update: I just checked him again immediately after making this point and he's still breathing hard and looking pale particularly along his body, he definitely looks very stressed but I don't think he likes being in the bare and open aquarium. I really can't understand why he's so frantic! I'm afraid he's going to swim himself to death.

I have two nerite snails at the moment, a tiger and a zebra named Kiki and Jiji respectively. I've had Kiki the longest, probably around a year and half now and I admit she's my favorite, I'm very fond of her! She's definitely the most active of the two, she really zips around and always seems to be on the move, and she's active on every possible surface. I haven't noticed if Jiji prefers one surface over any other, but she is much less active and tends to disappear for a couple days before reappearing again. I had two other zebras in the past who sadly died - their behavior was similar in how they would disappear and then reappear - and one other tiger that escaped the tank and thus also died. I know Kiki is female because I've seen her lay eggs before, I don't actually know if Jiji is or not 🤷‍♀️ I've tried feeding them algae wafers in the past but they completely ignored it, but my tank produces more than enough algae for them. I also have a rabbit snail in a different tank and when comparing algae-eating capabilities Bunny is very bad at it because he's just not the most agile with his big ol' shell. He very happily eats algae wafers and cucumber though, unlike the nerites!

I have 3 that I know of local to me in Portland OR, there are probably a couple more, but after reading everyone's replies here I'm wondering just how local they actually are when I have to drive 40-50 minutes to get to them. Definitely not a hop in your car for something you need last minute kind of local, but I live in a kind of rural area so not many specialized shops of any kind are. I heavily favor one of the 3 shops, The Wet Spot, to the point where imo the others aren't even worth visiting if it's a choice between them, but The Wet Spot is also the furthest one away. It makes me sad seeing that so many are going out of business.

I think a contributing factor here could also be the sheer size of the US, we're a very large country with much less population density, so in any given place there are going to be fewer people in general in the hobby on that level and thus probably couldn't support a store that is specific to aquascaping, outside of very large and dense cities like New York and Los Angeles. I have a great LFS in Portland that has plants/tanks/hardscape etc, but the fish themselves are the focus of the store and not aquascaping.