Perplexed

[rotpaw]

So, I have had community aquariums for 40 years and other than Ich one time I haven't had issues.

I set up a new 55g in January, adding my first canister filter and first live plants.  After a quick cycle using some established media, I transferred my 20g tall stock to the new tank.  All was going great so in 3 weeks I added a few more fish, including one Electric Blue Acara.  Other tankmates are 12 Miracle Endlers, 8 Julii Cory's,  a BN pleco, 6 Platy's and 6 Neons.  All was going well until 6 weeks ago when I noticed my EBA breathing harder (not at the surface), and refused food, which was very unusual and then overnight 3 white lesions appeared on his tail fins.  The rest of the tankmates seemed 100% normal.  The EBA started swimming erratically the next day and passed very quickly thereafter. At this point all tank parameters were normal, 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrate, 20 Nitrate, consistent pH of 7.8, temp of 78⁰.  I can't remember the exact numbers for GH and KH but I do have hard water and both were in the normal range for my tank.

Fast forward 1 week and 3 of my 6 Neons (blue/Red variety) have white cotton in the mouth area and one has a lone white spot on his body right by his tail fin. 

Assumption was columnaris and began treatment as outlined by Aquarium co-op...ie. Maracyn and Ich x.  Completed the treatment with no change so repeated, still no change.

So after carbon removal of the previous meds, I started Kanaplex, Methylene Blue and Nitrofurazone.  While it hasn't spread to any other fish, still the same 3 Neons it doesn't appear to be working on the current Neons infection.

So any other suggestions?  I have researched Neon Tetra Disease and they don't really fit the parameters and if Columnaris, wouldn't it have effected my other fish?  I can't catch the Neons to quarantine them.

Thanks for those that read this entire post.

 

 

 

 

[rotpaw]

Forgot to mention, weekly 20-25% water changes, every 2 weeks API testing, every 6 weeks canister maintenance (using tank water to rinse out all sponges, Matrix is bagged and every other time lightly dunked in tank water) and using gravel substrate with Easy Green to fertilize my Anabuis and Java Ferns (neither buried).  Also have some type of moss attached to a coconut shell.

 

[Colu]

On 8/11/2023 at 7:37 PM, rotpaw said:

Forgot to mention, weekly 20-25% water changes, every 2 weeks API testing, every 6 weeks canister maintenance (using tank water to rinse out all sponges, Matrix is bagged and every other time lightly dunked in tank water) and using gravel substrate with Easy Green to fertilize my Anabuis and Java Ferns (neither buried).  Also have some type of moss attached to a coconut shell.

 

Can you post a picture of the sick fish it will help with a diagnosis 

[rotpaw]

On 8/11/2023 at 6:35 PM, Colu said:

Can you post a picture of the sick fish it will help with a diagnosis 

I am trying to get one, they are fast....LOL

[rotpaw]

here are a few pictures...sorry not the best but all I could get.  Thanks for any help!

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/11/2023 at 11:21 AM, rotpaw said:

Assumption was columnaris and began treatment as outlined by Aquarium co-op...ie. Maracyn and Ich x.  Completed the treatment with no change so repeated, still no change.

So after carbon removal of the previous meds, I started Kanaplex, Methylene Blue and Nitrofurazone.  While it hasn't spread to any other fish, still the same 3 Neons it doesn't appear to be working on the current Neons infection.

I am honestly not sure why some of your mther methods haven't worked. If you can I would move the tetras to a QT setup and that way you can keep a better eye on them. I almost think there's a few things going on, especially with issues on the mouth. There could be something where they have an internal issue in the mouth, but you're seeing an external symptom as a result. They tried to eat something and it caused a sore and the fungus, essentially.

I would start with aquarium salt in that QT setup as well as catappa leaves to just see if you can ease them into a bit of recovery.  I would also add in the malachite green (ich-x) again. There is a powdered med recommended for mouth fungus, but I will defer that question to @Colus so we are sure you have the correct recommendation

Are you feeding primarily a flake food for the tetra?

[Colu]

Looks like snout chondroma there commonly associated with neon tetra disease that  spread when infected fish die and are  eaten by other and they ingest to many pleistophora for there immune system to handle it can infect angelfish danios barbs guppies goldfish and other species of tetras such as cardinals and rummy nose currently they not treatment available I would quarantine any fish fish showing symptoms he's a picture of neon tetra with snout chondroma for comparison @rotpaw

Edited August 13, 2023 by Colu

[rotpaw]

On 8/12/2023 at 9:44 PM, Colu said:

Looks like snout chondroma there commonly associated with neon tetra disease that  spread when infected fish die and are  eaten by other and they ingest to many pleistophora for there immune system to handle it can infect angelfish danios barbs guppies goldfish and other species of tetras such as cardinals and rummy nose currently they not treatment available I would quarantine any fish fish showing symptoms he's a picture of neon tetra with snout chondroma for comparison @rotpaw

 

[rotpaw]

I did find the snout chondroma in my research but since it appears "cottony" and while hard to see, in the first picture I posted, it is also on 1 fishes body right by the tail fin, so I thought maybe it wasn't snout chondroma.  I did see all 3 with mouth lesions eat tonight.

I do feed them flaked food, actually switched to Bug Bites flakes a few days ago and also in the past they have loved bloodworms and Brine shrimp, Daphenia, if they could get them before my EBA.

I will try tomorrow to quarantine them but they are very fast.  The remainder of the tankmates are all appearing normal and eating up a storm...

 

I do have Miracle Endlers in this tank, would they be susceptible since they are related to guppies?  So far, they seem fine.

Like I said so perplexed.  I went from two hob's on a 20g tall(Aqueon) and fake plants to a Fluval 407, 55g, real plants and Pothos roots in my tank and even have blooming Anabuis (which I read doesn't happen a lot) and so with trying to improve my ecosystem, it seems problems came up that I never had before.

Thank you to everyone who is willing to help.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2023 by rotpaw

[nabokovfan87]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:32 PM, rotpaw said:

I do feed them flaked food, actually switched to Bug Bites flakes a few days ago and also in the past they have loved bloodworms and Brine shrimp, Daphenia, if they could get them before my EBA.

For these guys in particular, flake might be easier on them to chew / swallow right now.

 

 

On 8/12/2023 at 8:32 PM, rotpaw said:

Like I said so perplexed.  I went from two hob's on a 20g tall(Aqueon) and fake plants to a Fluval 407, 55g, real plants and Pothos roots in my tank and even have blooming Anabuis (which I read doesn't happen a lot) and so with trying to improve my ecosystem, it seems problems came up that I never had before.

Thank you to everyone who is willing to help.

You're definitely doing the right things and sometimes it just happens.  Unfortunately.  Stress comes in many forms and that bit of stress can let immune symptoms pop up.  Some things are also simply contagious and it's tough when you see a disease go from one fish to the next in your scenario.  Hopefully the QT setup will work out and make things a little bit easier for you. 

The med listed for mouth fungus is going to be erythromycin (maracyn), as well as kanaplex or polyguard from seachem.  Given what you tried previously, potentially one of the others on the list may have better luck in addition to the salt and catappa leaves.

On 8/12/2023 at 8:32 PM, rotpaw said:

I will try tomorrow to quarantine them but they are very fast. 

 

[Colu]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:32 AM, rotpaw said:

I do have Miracle Endlers in this tank, would they be susceptible since they are related to guppies?  So far, they seem fine.

Yes endless  can get neon tetra disease it also causes cysts to develop in the muscle tissue that could be the other spots you seeing near the tail fin

[rotpaw]

Thanks for all the advice.

I haven't used Aquarium salt in my tanks, so what dose should I start with and do I up the dosage, if so when?

I set up a hospital tank so will attempt to get the effected neons moved this afternoon. 

I put in Prime, Stressguard and Indian Almond Leaves and some of the cooled water from boiling the leaf.

So add what next? And on what schedule?

 

Thanks again!  I have had this group of 6 Neons for 2 years and other than the lesions they are fat and active.

Does NTD effect the Green variety of Neons?  I have those in a separate tank and while I have shared tools in the past, that will no longer be happening and so far they appear fine.

 

 

[Colu]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:22 PM, rotpaw said:

Thanks for all the advice.

I haven't used Aquarium salt in my tanks, so what dose should I start with and do I up the dosage, if so when?

I set up a hospital tank so will attempt to get the effected neons moved this afternoon. 

I put in Prime, Stressguard and Indian Almond Leaves and some of the cooled water from boiling the leaf.

So add what next? And on what schedule?

 

Thanks again!  I have had this group of 6 Neons for 2 years and other than the lesions they are fat and active.

Does NTD effect the Green variety of Neons?  I have those in a separate tank and while I have shared tools in the past, that will no longer be happening and so far they appear fine.

 

 

Yes they are susceptible to neon tetra disease what I would do is start add 1 table spoon for 2 gallons for no more than  2 weeks just remember to only add back in what you take out so if you do a two gallon water change put one table spoon of salt back in and add an extra air stone during treatment 

[rotpaw]

On 8/13/2023 at 1:43 PM, Colu said:

Yes they are susceptible to neon tetra disease what I would do is start add 1 table spoon for 2 gallons for no more than  2 weeks just remember to only add back in what you take out so if you do a two gallon water change put one table spoon of salt back in and add an extra air stone during treatment 

Thank You, I will start adding the Aquarium Salt.