Goldfish lethargic after using Stress Guard, normal?

[Jeannieb]

I purchased 4 oranda goldfish yesterday. Seachem stress guard was recommended by the shop for new fish. I used 1 cap per 10 gallons around 3pm today. The fish went from very active to lethargic. If I had known that would happen, I would not have used it. Does anyone know if this is normal? Am I being overly concerned? Will it wear off in a short period of time or is it something I need to remove with water changes? Thank you for your help 

Edited July 22, 2023 by Jeannieb

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Increase air. Often water additives reduce dissolved oxygen levels in the water column.
 

Or just water change it out if they were active prior.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[Guppysnail]

I agree with @Chick-In-Of-TheSea  the stress guard does lower oxygen. 
You can also add a bit of aquarium salt to help with respiration. Start with adding airstone and 1/2 tbsp aquarium salt. 
A friend recommended using salt with new fish to reduce stress and help with acclimation to their new home. I tried it and also found it helps a lot to settle fish in quickly. 

[Lennie]

Have you tested the water? I would test and observe to see  if your tank can handle the addition of 4 goldfish at once, without knowing their size, yknow goldfish are big bioload.

I used stress guard many times with soo many different fish and haven't noticed any side effect like that. Just a side note, it is better if you don't dose it with some other specific seachem  products like prime, in order to not decrease the oxygen a lot, and some copper medicines. You can see which ones to avoid in their site. If you can't manage to find, lmk, I will try to find for you

 

I don't think it is stress guard is potentially the problem here, as goldfish can breathe from the surface, so even if you end up with low oxygen, would they be critically affected this much? It is hard to speak certain ofc. maybe potentially something else. Please check your ammonia and nitrite results

Edited July 23, 2023 by Lennie

[Jeannieb]

I thank everyone who has responded to my worries. Thank you Thank you

The quarantine tank is 40 gallons, no substrate. Filtration: AquaClear 110 (with a diffuser to soften current) and 2 large double sponge filters. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, PH 7.4.  I added API salt according to the dosing on box prior to getting the goldfish.

Last night I did a 20% water change. They were a tiny bit more active afterwards. I worried all night. This morning they were active and bright. 😃 What a relief!

Stress Guard definitely caused the fish to become mellow, to an extraordinary extent. I didn't realize Stress Guard could do that. If I ever use it again in the future I will use a much much smaller dose to start.

Thank you all once again!!

 

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/23/2023 at 9:52 AM, Jeannieb said:

Stress Guard definitely caused the fish to become mellow, to an extraordinary extent. I didn't realize Stress Guard could do that. If I ever use it again in the future I will use a much much smaller dose to start.

I wouldn't worry about the dose as much as just general oxygenation.

Goldfish are cooler water species and this time of year it's just a bit hot. As temp increases, the oxygenation in the water is less so. That being said..... I would encourage you that any tank have an air stone if possible as well as emphasize that for any tank that is designed for fish that love cooler water (and in my experience also crave good oxygenation) as well as any tank that is just working higher temp than normal.

[Jeannieb]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:56 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

I would encourage you that any tank have an air stone if possible as well as emphasize that for any tank that is designed for fish that love cooler water (and in my experience also crave good oxygenation) as well as any tank that is just working higher temp than normal.

I am using a Whisper 60 (at full speed) to power the 2 large double sponge filters in the quarantine tank. Do you think I also need to add an air stone? The air bubbles coming from the sponge filters are at a high velocity. I will definitely add one if they are not getting enough air. I have not kept goldfish since I was a child. I want them to thrive.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Jeannieb

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/23/2023 at 10:05 AM, Jeannieb said:

I am using a Whisper 60 (at full speed) to power the 2 large double sponge filters in the quarantine tank. Do you think I also need to add an air stone? The air bubbles coming from the sponge filters are at a high velocity. I will definitely add one if they are not getting enough air. I have not kept goldfish since I was a child. I want them to thrive.

Having dual sponges should be plenty.  Adding salt, typically you'd want to add an air stone while the water has that in there. Potentially that was the issue.... But, I would say that your setup as described is more than adequate.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 7/23/2023 at 12:56 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

cooler water species

What is the temperature @Jeannieb?

[Lennie]

I bet it was just a shock  and stress of changing environment if they all act normal after day1. Probably they started settling down so acting more like themselves.

[Jeannieb]

On 7/23/2023 at 1:36 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

What is the temperature @Jeannieb?

80°. The shop said my goldfish are from Thailand and they quarantine at 80°. I plan on progressively lowering the temperature once they are out of quarantine. This is all new to me. All of my other tanks do not have heaters.

On 7/23/2023 at 1:46 PM, Lennie said:

I bet it was just a shock  and stress of changing environment if they all act normal after day1. Probably they started settling down so acting more like themselves.

It is certainly quite possible. I got them 3pm Friday. They were very active. Kind of overly active. Saturday afternoon I put Stress Guard in the tank. That's when they became lethargic. 🤷🏼‍♀️ There are no other meds in the water. I honestly don't know. I looked up info on Stress Guard and there is no mention of lethargy being a possible side effect.

Lots and lots of worry on my part lol.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Jeannieb

[nabokovfan87]

On 7/23/2023 at 11:50 AM, Jeannieb said:

It is certainly quite possible. I got them 3pm Friday. They were very active. Kind of overly active. Saturday afternoon I put Stress Guard in the tank. That's when they became lethargic. 🤷🏼‍♀️ There are no other meds in the water. I honestly don't know. I looked up info on Stress Guard and there is no mention of lethargy being a possible side effect.

I think this is about the best response / clarification any of us can give.  Grab yourself a glass of tea and hit play.  I'll comment below for "after the video" thoughts.  This is one of my favorite and useful videos that I oft recommend viewing from Cory and the Co-Op and it seems to be apt for this situation.
 

I think one thing to keep in mind is the temperature, resources, and the overall care of fish in Thailand at breeding setups compared to your own personal fish room.  If you want to keep them "warmer" to encourage metabolism or other things which will have an impact on the immune system response of the fish, then I think a sensible range is likely near 76 degrees or so.  80 is a bit toasty for a lot of fish.  I would also not drop the temp suddenly or anything, but you can likely just unplug the heater and let room temp slowly sink in.  During the summer I specifically do not run heaters in any of my tanks as I am trying to keep them sustained as cool as I can manage.

For a day to day, you're probably looking at 72 degrees or so as your optimal range for the fish, potentially down into the mid 60s.  I don't keep goldfish, but that is just where the knowledge I have would keep them in my own care.

I hope this helps!  Ultimately it isn't something where anyone did anything incorrect and these things happen.  "Be the fish" is a mantra from Eric Bodrock who is a highly regarded breeder trying to spawn species that have never spawned before.  Ultimately, you saw the signs, asked for help, and here we are.  You did everything right and it's awesome to see.  Nice work!

[Jeannieb]

@nabokovfan87  Thank you for suggesting that video. Just today I noticed one of the goldfish flashing. 🤯 I knew 80° seemed high but I was relying on the directions from the shop, believing they must know better than my limited knowledge base. I hope the high temp hasn't caused permanent damage to my new goldfish 🥺 Thank you again! 💝

[Jeannieb]

Update: I just tested the oxygen level with a test kit. The test kit says freshwater aquariums should be 8mg/L or higher. My quarantine tank is 6mg/L. 

I want to thank everyone who assisted me. You are all amazing! I am adding another air pump and air stone ASAP. Is that the only thing I should do to increase oxygen in the tank?

[Guppysnail]

I may have missed where you said what type of filter you have. A hang on back filter will increase oxygen levels. If the output drops straight down just leave an inch so it enters as a waterfall. Some HOBs output that it flows across the surface causing lots of surface rippling. Those are great. I know my Marineland penguins cause the surface ripples. Aquaclear drop almost straight down. 
 

Wait 24 hours after airstone and check O2 levels again. You may not need anything else. 

[Jeannieb]

On 7/25/2023 at 11:32 AM, Guppysnail said:

I may have missed where you said what type of filter you have.

Its a 40 gallon tank with an Aquaclear 110 (with diffuser to soften current) and 2 large double sponge filters (run by a Whisper 60 air pump).

Good to know. I will wait 24 hours after the new air pump and air stone are added before testing the oxygen level again. 👍🏻

[nabokovfan87]

Awesome news, I'm glad you were able to test and get the information needed for the oxygenation levels.

Are the fish doing a little better?

On 7/25/2023 at 8:27 AM, Jeannieb said:

Is that the only thing I should do to increase oxygen in the tank?

Lower the temp / unplug the heater. Assuming it's a goldfish only tank it's the single best thing you can do.

[Jeannieb]

On 7/25/2023 at 11:56 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Are the fish doing a little better?

Yes they are doing better. 😃 The parameters are great and holding steady. I did lower their temp. It's currently 74.1°  in the tank. My house is also 74° so I don't think it can get cooler than that. 

I was considering doing a 20% water change. Would that help introduce more oxygen while also removing more of the Stress Guard from the water? I don't want to cause more harm than good. I'm really not sure whether I should or not.