Constantly reading ammonia, but WHY? 🫠

[Lennie]

Okay. I have never experienced such thing in my 15 years of fishkeeping. So I need some suggestions.

 

Has been a couple of weeks since I have the discus breeding tank  going on. But there is an issue that never stops.

READING THE AMMONIA/AMMONIUM 😒

About the tank and equipment:

the tank is 180 liters, 60cmx60cmx50cmh. Has two cycled sponges and one airstone running.

• one sponge came from the tank with 5 adult mystery snails.
• other sponge came from a tank with 16 rabbit snails, some guppy fry and shrimp.

So as you can guess, both sponges are already dealing with lots of bioload as it is. Literally poop machine tanks. The sponges were kept in tanks with 10gh, 20kh, 8.0 ph with no ammonia or nitrite, only nitrate readings for months. I know they are cycled %100.

 

The discus tank is around 6.0 ph, sometimes a lil lower, sometimes a lil higher. No kh and low gh. However, the thing is, it reads ammonia and Idk why.

 

• I tested the Ro just in case to check if there is ammonia, 0. All clear 👍🏼
• I tested the RO, again just in case, after using prime to see if chlorine cause me to read ammonia. Nope, again, still 0 ammonia.👍🏼
• I opened a new package of Sera's liquid test kit and tested again. So I know the test kit is not the issue here.🤷🏼‍♂️

 

-> I stopped feeding them for 4 days and used some stability. Ammonia( or Ammonium with this ph I guess?) started to lower but never  read zero still. The thing is, there is no nitrite or nitrate readings even when the ammonia lowers down. Weird. I fed them for the first time yesterday again, boom, 1ppm ammonia( or probably ammonia again) today. I don't overfeed or anything. There were no uneaten food particles on the bottom. The tank is bare bottom.

 

-> I siphon the tank after feeding time everyday. So food never sits on the bottom of the tank.

-> the tank looks milky sometimes. That was my sign to test the water at the first place. The test kit reads ammonia/ammonium. But fish never really act weird or show the signs of ammonia poisoning.

 

P.S: I always use prime during water changes even when I use RO, and I double dose to be on the safe side. I am a better safe than sorry type of guy.

 

I am feeling lost about whats going on. All other tanks I have are fine as they are, including the ones I use RO and tap, the ones are overstocked or being fed 2-3 times a day. What's up with this one?

 

Any ideas? Does the cycle crash for some reason? I don't think 6 ph is that low to affect the cycle.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2023 by Lennie

[Lennie]

I’ve just noticed that I forgot to add, I cleaned the sponges in tank water before introducing them to the discus tank. So they are not dirty or full of detrius.

Edited July 20, 2023 by Lennie

[Lennie]

On 7/20/2023 at 12:42 PM, Pepere said:

If I had to guess the bioload of the discus tank is higher.

 

light feeding as the beneficial bacteria ramp up might help.

 

also the ph between the tanks is different. As such the specific bacteria present to metabolize the ammonia might have to change…

 

Both of these fall in the category of guesses…I freely asmit I could be all wet.

Even if their bioload as a pair is higher then all those snail/guppy tanks in combination, wouldn’t it catch up with it at this point after 2 weeks?

Also why am I reading lower ammonia gradually after I stopped feeding, but no nitrite or nitrate in a barebottom no plant tank

Isnt it interesting

[MattyM]

On 7/20/2023 at 4:12 AM, Lennie said:

no nitrite or nitrate readings even when the ammonia lowers down. Weird

That is weird! It almost like the tank isn't cycled - maybe? What size are your sponges and what size/bio-load was the tanks they came from? Did you have plants and substrate in those tanks?

As far a bottled bacteria, I've had great results with Fritzyme 7 - but with a bare bottom, plant-less tank maybe you need more bio media for bacteria to grow on? 

Again guessing, but maybe some things to try.

[Lennie]

On 7/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, MattyM said:

That is weird! It almost like the tank isn't cycled - maybe? What size are your sponges and what size/bio-load was the tanks they came from? Did you have plants and substrate in those tanks?

As far a bottled bacteria, I've had great results with Fritzyme 7 - but with a bare bottom, plant-less tank maybe you need more bio media for bacteria to grow on? 

Again guessing, but maybe some things to try.

Hey Matty,

On 7/20/2023 at 6:16 PM, MattyM said:

What size are your sponges and what size/bio-load was the tanks they came from? Did you have plants and substrate in those tanks?

No plants where they come from except a few frogbit. No substrate in mystery snail tank, there is a fine sand on rabbit snail tank because they like to bury.

about the sponges:

On 7/20/2023 at 12:12 PM, Lennie said:

• one sponge came from the tank with 5 adult mystery snails.
• other sponge came from a tank with 16 rabbit snails, some guppy fry and shrimp.

the big sponge is; 14 cm high, 12cm dia.

mid size one is 9cm high, 12cm dia. 

[Odd Duck]

I suspect your sponges just haven’t caught up yet.  I think your tank is going through a mini-cycle.  Between the difference in bioload and pH, plus the substrate and plants in your other tanks were probably reducing the load your sponges had to handle, your sponges are “cycled” but maybe still weren’t quite ready for the full load of the discus tank.  There’s a huge difference between small snails and fish compared to very deep bodied fish like discus.  Give the sponges time and they’ll catch up.  Do your water changes as needed and use Prime as needed until they get caught up.  I’d bet they will soon, you should be close.  Keep testing as frequently as needed until your numbers are back on track.

You’ve got this!

[Lennie]

On 7/20/2023 at 11:52 PM, Odd Duck said:

I suspect your sponges just haven’t caught up yet.  I think your tank is going through a mini-cycle.  Between the difference in bioload and pH, plus the substrate and plants in your other tanks were probably reducing the load your sponges had to handle, your sponges are “cycled” but maybe still weren’t quite ready for the full load of the discus tank.  There’s a huge difference between small snails and fish compared to very deep bodied fish like discus.  Give the sponges time and they’ll catch up.  Do your water changes as needed and use Prime as needed until they get caught up.  I’d bet they will soon, you should be close.  Keep testing as frequently as needed until your numbers are back on track.

You’ve got this!

Thanks Duck, 

I hope it gets fixed soon! 🫠

I came across something like this online.

 

Can it be my RO having no kh so the bacteria can't do its job? @Odd Duck @Biotope Biologist

[Odd Duck]

Are you not using a remineralizer?  I missed that!  Yes, it can affect if your bacteria thrive or not.  They need certain nutrients, too.  I would use a remineralizer powder and supplement at the rate recommended for Caridina shrimp since that’s always on the labels for the remineralizers.  That should make it easy enough.  You’re probably accidentally starving your BB’s since they do need a certain level of minerals to thrive and reproduce.  You might try mixing some tap water in with your RO water, too.  That way you’ll get more mixed minerals, too, vs. just a few select minerals in the remineralizer powder.

[Lennie]

On 7/21/2023 at 12:14 AM, Odd Duck said:

Are you not using a remineralizer?  I missed that!  Yes, it can affect if your bacteria thrive or not.  They need certain nutrients, too.  I would use a remineralizer powder and supplement at the rate recommended for Caridina shrimp since that’s always on the labels for the remineralizers.  That should make it easy enough.  You’re probably accidentally starving your BB’s since they do need a certain level of minerals to thrive and reproduce.  You might try mixing some tap water in with your RO water, too.  That way you’ll get more mixed minerals, too, vs. just a few select minerals in the remineralizer powder.

I use GH+ and some mineral powder. But nothing to increase kh! 

I poured in some tap water with prime, let's see if adding kh will make any difference!

[Lennie]

Update:

I suspect it was the discus egg laying tube leeching to the water column, because all my cycled sponges were not working and obviously cycle was crashing, even elodea died in that tank?!!

 

I took the tank down, removed everything, washed it with vinegar and hydrogen peroxide and set it up again. I didnt use anything from previous setup other than the light and the tank itself.

This time, Ive used one big cycled sponge filter instead of two. Checked the situation of tank, and when it seemed fine I added adult mystery snails, increasing the number up to 3 gradually. No ammonia/ammonium.

Then after a month added discus. No ammonia/ammonium again.

 

So there was a problem with something in the tank but it was not about my cycling or water ph kh gh, feeding or discus bioload. I again transferred this sponge from a high ph hard water high kh tank to soft water low ph tank. So that was not the one affecting the cycle too. Im lost but at least Im happy its working now

Edited September 27, 2023 by Lennie