New tank cycle?

[FishRKool28]

Good day to all,

New here, long story short… bought a beta for my son in a nano-tank. Got hooked and started watching YouTube videos and got sucked down the rabbit hole. Upgrades sons betta tank to a 5 gal, which led me to buying my own 10 gal tank that I’d like to start shrimp and neon tetra in. My question is, after over a week of letting the tank run (white aquarium gravel mixed with small pebbles, sponge filter, 2 pieces of driftwood, lava rock, and Java moss pad) my test strips still read high nitrates and nitrites, PH is about 8, water is somewhat hard. I started using Seachem Stability for beneficial bacteria growth but I still have pink nitrate and nitrite readings on test strips?? Did a 30% water change last night and will check when I get home today. Any advice or tips are welcome. I tried asking petco for a used sponge filter but they declined.

[FishRKool28]

Will post pics tonight, including test strip readings 

[AndEEss]

On 6/27/2023 at 12:01 PM, FishRKool28 said:

Good day to all,

New here, long story short… bought a beta for my son in a nano-tank. Got hooked and started watching YouTube videos and got sucked down the rabbit hole. Upgrades sons betta tank to a 5 gal, which led me to buying my own 10 gal tank that I’d like to start shrimp and neon tetra in. My question is, after over a week of letting the tank run (white aquarium gravel mixed with small pebbles, sponge filter, 2 pieces of driftwood, lava rock, and Java moss pad) my test strips still read high nitrates and nitrites, PH is about 8, water is somewhat hard. I started using Seachem Stability for beneficial bacteria growth but I still have pink nitrate and nitrite readings on test strips?? Did a 30% water change last night and will check when I get home today. Any advice or tips are welcome. I tried asking petco for a used sponge filter but they declined.

 

I'm confused. If you have high nitrate, as you indicate here, it indicates that you are nearly done cycling. Unless your tap water is high in nitrates, that is.

Edited June 27, 2023 by AndEEss

[Lennie]

So the first question is, have you added any sort of ammonia to your new tank.

If you go to Seachem's Stability page, you can obtain some more info on FAQ part. I will share some below.

 

Basically, in order to start a cycle, first you need to have an ammonia source in the tank. The best is going for a fishless cycle. Especially considering you have high ph, that would be much much more toxic to have a fish in. Fishless cycle is better no matter what for the fish's wellbeing anyway.

 

So, before using seachem stability, you should ideally started ghostfeeding the tank, which means adding a small pinch of fish food, let it decay and ammonia to come out. This is something I've used before and it works. However, a little messy, and you can't exactly calculate the amount of ammonia you wanna cycle with. You can also use ammonia for aquariums like Dr Tims ammonia and cycle with that.  Also I usually add filter gunk and poop fish water after water change to speed up the cycle. However, you should be sure that tank has no health issues otherwise you can spread the potential diseases.

So basically, let's say you ghost feed the tank with small pinch of fish food everyday, food decays and ammonia comes out. the bb will consume ammonia to and turn it into nitrite. And then nitrite, to nitrate. For it to cycle, you should be seeing all ammonia and nitrite cleared, and only reading nitrates. That's when you know your tank is cycled.

If you haven't added an ammonia source then your cycle did not start. You might be reading your nitrite from your tap, and nitrate from the ferts/ or tap again. Ideally test your tap for these too see if you have any in your tap water.

 

Usually, cycling with adding an ammonia source such as ghostfeeding + stability can take around 6 weeks but ofcourse only test kits can tell. Every tank is unique and maybe yours can take shorter or longer. 

However if you haven't added an ammonia source, then your cycle can't start. Because the bacteria in stability still need the ammonia source to start the cycle.

From Seachem's Stability FAQ:

"I have finished the suggested 7-day dosing, however, my tank is still not fully cycled. Why?

A: Since every tank will cycle differently, it is difficult for us to give an exact time frame as to when your tank will be fully cycled. However, generally most tanks are cycled within 4-6 weeks.

If I plan to do a fishless cycle and use Stability™, do I need to add an ammonia source to kick-start the nitrogen cycle?

A: Yes, for expedited cycling times, you will want to add a pinch of food daily until you have an ammonia reading. At that point, you can stop adding the food and let the bacteria run its course."

 

 

When it comes to water parameters, ideally, neons usually like softer water with lower ph. Choosing your stocking based on your parameters can be a nicer option however usually it works okay. Tank bred ones from local sources may help them to adapt better. Wild caught ones usually may struggle more for undesired water conditions.

On 6/27/2023 at 10:29 PM, AndEEss said:

Unless your tap water is high in nitrates, that is.

Can be straight up fertilizers too

[CinGA]

Just to help you plan, it usually takes me 6-8 weeks to cycle a tank without filter media from another tank.  The advice above about how to cycle is good - there's a lot of guides out there to help with that.  

[FishRKool28]

Apologies I definitely rambled, basically after test kit readings my PH was high about 7.8 and my nitrites were about 1.0 ppm. This is having the tank running for a week so far. I only had a Java moss mat in there with some driftwood and lava rock. Yesterday I bought some more live plants (Java ferns) to go in the tank and started “seasoning” the tank with community flakes. Will check water parameters when I get home today. I will continue following Seachems guide for Stability and continue to put in flakes. Watched Aquarium Co-Op nitrogen cycle yesterday and have a better understanding, thanks to all who replied!

[Lennie]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:44 PM, FishRKool28 said:

Apologies I definitely rambled, basically after test kit readings my PH was high about 7.8 and my nitrites were about 1.0 ppm. This is having the tank running for a week so far. I only had a Java moss mat in there with some driftwood and lava rock. Yesterday I bought some more live plants (Java ferns) to go in the tank and started “seasoning” the tank with community flakes. Will check water parameters when I get home today. I will continue following Seachems guide for Stability and continue to put in flakes. Watched Aquarium Co-Op nitrogen cycle yesterday and have a better understanding, thanks to all who replied!

If those are javaferns you gotta attach them on driftwood or rocks. When buried into substrate, they will die. 
 

Also if you are planning to stock with something that will likely graze around the rock, getting rid of the lava rock sharpness can be a good idea to prevent any potential i juries. You can use a sand paper to decrease the sharpness around it. I also found pouring hot water helping it to lose sharpness of it but pouring hot water over a rock can be risky.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Lennie

[FishRKool28]

Appreciate the feedback. So do I just pull them out and use aquarium glue to put them on the driftwood or rock? What type of glue would you recommend? Thanks 

[PaigeIs]

Any cyanoacrylate glue will do, but be sure to get the gel kind. The liquid version drips everywhere.    I like the Krazy Glue gel pen, personally.  I have a bunch of anubias, buce, and java ferns in my tanks.  The little pen is easy to use. You do not need to buy any of the aquarium-specific brands (Seachem, for example). They are no different than regular cyanoacrylate glues, just more expensive.  

[FishRKool28]

Thanks I really appreciate the feedback from everyone! This tank will be a cherry shrimp tank with chili rasbora, anyone have experience with these 2 species? I will continue to post pics 

[Milliardo Peacecraft]

On 6/27/2023 at 1:01 PM, FishRKool28 said:

Good day to all,

New here, long story short… bought a beta for my son in a nano-tank. Got hooked and started watching YouTube videos and got sucked down the rabbit hole. Upgrades sons betta tank to a 5 gal, which led me to buying my own 10 gal tank that I’d like to start shrimp and neon tetra in. My question is, after over a week of letting the tank run (white aquarium gravel mixed with small pebbles, sponge filter, 2 pieces of driftwood, lava rock, and Java moss pad) my test strips still read high nitrates and nitrites, PH is about 8, water is somewhat hard. I started using Seachem Stability for beneficial bacteria growth but I still have pink nitrate and nitrite readings on test strips?? Did a 30% water change last night and will check when I get home today. Any advice or tips are welcome. I tried asking petco for a used sponge filter but they declined.

One suggestion I would have is something I've run into here in Southern Wisconsin.  The water here has a higher pH, mine is about 8.4 in the aquarium.  When I use Seachem Equilibrium in my water at 8.4 pH I got abnormally high nitate readings, but when I used some pH down in the aquarium and got the pH below 8.0 I started getting more believable readings.  I have only run into test strips reading artificially high for nitrates when I had the combination of high pH on soft water that I had added Seachem Equilibrium to.

I'm not saying that you are definitely running into that senerio, but it took me months of trying to figure out why my nitrates seemed to be running wacky high before I stumbled across what was occurring.  So it might be worth trying a little test by adding a little pH down and get the pH a little below 8.0 and see if your nitate tests come out different.

[FishRKool28]

Yea I’m going to test again today after work and see where I’m at, here in Texas the water is typically 7.0-8.5 ph. I was going to order some Catappa leaves to help bring the PH down a bit 

[CinGA]

On 6/28/2023 at 1:31 PM, FishRKool28 said:

Thanks I really appreciate the feedback from everyone! This tank will be a cherry shrimp tank with chili rasbora, anyone have experience with these 2 species? I will continue to post pics 

I have cherry shrimp in one tank and dwarf rasbora in another, which are very similar to chilis. I love my rasboras!  They are SO active and playful and have a surprising amount of personality. Cherry shrimp are actually pretty easy in my experience - I may struggle a lot with the caradina shrimp, but cherry shrimp were easy for me. I think those two species will be great together. 

[AllFishNoBrakes]

I currently have cherry shrimp and chili’s in a 20 gallon long blackwater tank. 
 

The tank started as a shrimp only tank about 3 years ago. In the past couple of months I was itching to do something different and decided on a blackwater tank.

I left most of the shrimp in there, simply to see if they could acclimate to the blackwater conditions. To my surprise, the cherry shrimp, dwarf crayfish, and ramshorn snails all made the transition flawlessly. Probably helps that my water is already lower pH, soft, with little to no buffer. Tannins and botanicals haven’t shifted my parameters at all in the past several months, so basically my tank just got a bunch of tannins. Shrimp are continuing to thrive and the community is gaining numbers back from when I pulled some out and put them in other tanks at the beginning of the transition.

The Chili’s have been a fun addition. When I first put them in the tank they mostly hung out in the back, and the water is so dark I could barely see them. They’d only really come to the front during feeding time. Now, about a month later, they’ve adjusted and swim all over the place. Their coloration is beautiful, and in my experience have been a fun and active fish. 
 

Next I’ll be adding Green Neon Tetras and my blackwater tank will be complete. 

[FishRKool28]

Todays readings, looks like my ph went down 👍, nitrite looks to me 1.0 ppm and 0 nitrate  and 0 ammonia 

Took Java ferns out of gravel and glued to driftwood and lava rock, too bad aquarium co-op is out of water sprite 😢 lol. 

[Lennie]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:21 AM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

For snails, the acidic ph causes damage to their shell, as it is mainly calcium carbonate, and in acidic ph, it dissolves in the water. Just like using crushed coral or cuttlebone in the tank.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/232662023_The_concentration_of_calcium_carbonate_in_shells_of_freshwater_snails

"The concentrations of calcium carbonate (mean % by dry weight) of the shells were as follows: H. trivolvis (wild), 97.0; Physa sp., 97.8; H. trivolvis (CO), 97.6; B. glabrata, 98.8; P. bridgesii, 98.2. Our data support and validate the previous claim that snail shells are comprised of 95–99.9% calcium carbonate."

You can see the effect of it on the shells of snails in the picture of yours. Well, pest snails tend to tolerate lots of undesirable conditions in general. But ideally their shells should be like this instead: 

 

So I personally don't think snails can do that well in an acidic environment due to what I mentioned above, but they can survive based on the occasion. Especially pest snails. Until the erosion becomes lethal in extreme cases where the flesh is exposed. Otherwise it is kinda unsightly and usually not that harmful.

That being said, I LOVE those rasboras. How colorful and red, even in such blackwater setup

 

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by Lennie

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 6/29/2023 at 1:18 AM, Lennie said:

For snails, the acidic ph causes damage to their shell, as it is mainly calcium carbonate, and in acidic ph, it dissolves in the water. Just like using crushed coral or cuttlebone in the tank.

Yup, I’m aware. Thank you for the advice, though. 😊

[Galabar]

Could you share a close-up of that Java moss mat?

Also, it seems interesting that you only see nitrite.  That could mean that the tank is now processing ammonia and nitrite will follow (as you'd expect).

 

[FishRKool28]

On 6/29/2023 at 5:23 PM, Galabar said:

Could you share a close-up of that Java moss mat?

Also, it seems interesting that you only see nitrite.  That could mean that the tank is now processing ammonia and nitrite will follow (as you'd expect).

 

Checking now my PH was 7.4

and you see the Nitrite and Nitrate readings, hoping to see 0 nitrite soon lol

[Galabar]

Maybe others can comment, but one source of ammonia may have been that java moss mat...

[FishRKool28]

I couldn’t say, however, past 2 days have had 0 ammonia, just about 1.0 ppm Nitrite and 0 Nitrate

[Galabar]

If you are starting from "zero," you would first start to see ammonia, later the ammonia would begin to drop and you'd start to see nitrite.  Then, nitrite will drop too.  Now, whether you see nitrates after that depends on the sensitivity of the test you are using.

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Galabar

[FishRKool28]

Yea I’m starting from zero, new tank, new sponge filter new everything. Tank has been running about 2 weeks, but week 1 I had no live plants in there 

[Galabar]

On 6/29/2023 at 5:45 PM, FishRKool28 said:

Yea I’m starting from zero, new tank, new sponge filter new everything. Tank has been running about 2 weeks, but week 1 I had no live plants in there 

I think you are doing just fine.  Just wait for that nitrite to hit zero.  Keep adding an ammonia source (e.g. food, Tim's, store ammonia, etc.).  You should be fine.

For fertilizer, you can grab something like Easygreen.

 

[FishRKool28]

Yea I ordered some Amazon Swords and Pogostemon Stellatus Octopus, along with some easy green, easy green root tabs and some Catava leaves. Petco is convenient for simple stuff but I buy mainly from Aquarium Co-op now