Algae problems, questions about fertilization.

[riioKen]

Hi guys, i need help,

after i removed salvinia minima from the tank, i had an (expected) algae bloom, GSA and "filamentous". The tank is medium planted.

Reading online, i know that Estimative Index methods, is an "overdosing" ferts method, so that plants doesn't have any deficiencies. Im not doing an EI method, but more a "lean one" (APT 3), but considering the high stock level and feeding, probably i have plenty macros in the tank (everytime i test nitrates, it is always 0 or < 5ppm).

Now the question is, if im getting algae, and im doing a leaner fertilization (considering the high stock level) is because i have some deficiency?

I know that GSA is always related to phosphate, which i bought a test but i can't test right now, should i check deficiency somewhere else? or i dose too much fertilization? which isn't clear to me, considering the "leaning method", if im struggling that much, how the EI user deal with their algae?

 

Extra info about tank, water param etc.

Tank: 80x30x40cm (5cm inert substrate), 85L.
Light: Chihiros WRGB2 Slim60 (100% around 26-27lm x litres for 8h (+30m ramp up and +30m dim)
Co2: inline diffuser attached very close at the start of the outflow hose.
Filter: Oase biomaster thermo 600 (300gph).
Fertilizer that i own: Dry ferts micro and macro from PlantedBox (never used), Nilocg Thrive C (i bought it when i haven't co2), APT 3 Complete (im using it rn, used for about 2 months).

The tank is up since January, but i had it without fish for about 3-4 months because I was setting it up (for both cycle and planting).
Plants and livestock:

• 12 CPD
• 11 Ember tetra
• 6 Pygmy
• 6 Otos
• 2 Amano

I feed them 2 times per day, sinking pellets (danio, tetra and cories), veggies (zucchini and cucumber) and wafers (otos).

Ludwigia, Bacopa, nymphaea lotus red, Egeria densa, Montecarlo and echinodorus red flame.

About water parameters:

Ammonia and Nitrites 0.
Nitrates 5ppm and Phosphate 0,25mg x Litres
Ph without Co2 is around 7.6
Ph with Co2 is 6.8 - 7.0 (the shade is almost identical THANKS API)
GH 11 - KH 8
Co2 on 2 hour before light on (changed today, before was 1h) and off 1h before light off, Drop checker now after 8h that Co2 is injected is "not so dark" green
My schedule is 2 pump and half (every pump is 1ml) of APT 3 Complete (today i only did 1, a guy said that due feeding, i had too much po4 in the tank) for 6 days, sunday i don't fertilize and in the evening i do 50% WC and start again next week.

Tell me if i missed something, thanks.

Edited June 26, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

CO2 could go a little higher and nutrients are low for an inert substrate. Usually, those running a lean nutrient regimate back it up with an aqua soil. I'd recommend Estimative Index dosing when using inert substrates. 

[riioKen]

So you think that im i having algae due the lack of fertilization? what about double the amount of the pump that i usally do with the apt3? a guy said to me to even buy APT 1 zero which is even leaner (almost 0 macro).

 

I can even mix dry ferts that i bought from plantedBox, or maybe use Nilocg Thrive C (even if it should be used in low tanks without co2).

 

About fertilization, usually i dose it  on the outflow filter, im pretty sure that it is well spread wide in the tank

Edited June 26, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:08 AM, riioKen said:

So you think that im i having algae due the lack of fertilization? what about double the amount of the pump that i usally do with the apt3? a guy said to me to even buy APT 1 zero which is even leaver (almost 0 macro).

Yes, and a bit of low CO2. Try to get a 1 full point of pH drop. Just keep an eye on the fish when you make the adjustment. 

I'd also look up the dosing information on the APT so you know exactly what's being dosed.

[riioKen]

On 6/26/2023 at 4:11 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

 

I'd also look up the dosing information on the APT so you know exactly what's being dosed.

5ml x 100L

3.8 ppm K Potassium, 1,8ppm No3, 0,7ppm Po4, 0,05ppm Fe, + magnesium and trace.

 

right now, I'm dosing it 2,5ml x 6 days for 85L, maybe i do a full dose of 5ml daily for 6 days and then 50%wc?

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/26/2023 at 8:56 AM, riioKen said:

5ml x 100L

3.8 ppm K Potassium, 1,8ppm No3, 0,7ppm Po4, 0,05ppm Fe, + magnesium and trace.

 

right now, I'm dosing it 2,5ml x 6 days for 85L, maybe i do a full dose of 5ml daily for 6 days and then 50%wc?

I would do that and try to bump up CO2 a smidge more. Make sure you have good flow throughout the tank. Flow is very important and really helps to eliminate algae. 

If you see the plants looking better, but still have algae, drop the light intensity by 10%. Give things a good 3 weeks before making another adjustment. Keep up on the weekly 50% water changes.

 

[riioKen]

On 6/26/2023 at 5:08 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I would do that and try to bump up CO2 a smidge more. Make sure you have good flow throughout the tank. Flow is very important and really helps to eliminate algae. 

If you see the plants looking better, but still have algae, drop the light intensity by 10%. Give things a good 3 weeks before making another adjustment. Keep up on the weekly 50% water changes.

 

Ok, do you think that I should remove the algae that I have, or if the adjustment works, are enough to kill/starve the algae?

 

I have posted some photos. Thanks 

[Mmiller2001]

Looks like some GDA and GSA. I would just scrape the glass right before your water change and the GSA is an indicator of low Phosphate (PO4). I wouldn't do anything drastic except raise the nutrients per above and scrape glass right before the 50% water change. Your plant mass is a bit low and as that increases, you should see a drop in GDA and higher PO4 will clear the GSA. I would also cut the healthy tops off and replant and toss the lower portion that look weak. You can keep the lower portions temporarily just to propagate more plants then use the new growth and finally toss the lower portions. Once you get this tank about 70% planted, the fertilizers increased and the CO2 where it needs to be, you should see almost no new algae.

Did the Oase come with a spray bar?

 

[riioKen]

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Looks like some GDA and GSA

Yes, and some hair algae (some are brown and some green)

 

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

GSA is an indicator of low Phosphate (PO4)

Yes, i read it somewhere, my Po4 levels are 0,25mg x Litres.

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I would also cut the healthy tops off and replant and toss the lower portion that look weak. You can keep the lower portions temporarily just to propagate more plants then use the new growth and finally toss the lower portions.

Ok, I'll do this. 

 

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Once you get this tank about 70% planted, the fertilizers increased and the CO2 where it needs to be, you should see almost no new algae.

Ok, so I'll move this way:

Tomorrow I'll dose 5ml APT 3 (increased from 2,5ml).

I have increased CO2 a bit, so tomorrow I'll check the pH before CO2 goes on (around 7.4 anyway), mid day and in the evening but I think that it should ok (when the light is off, i use air pump to let the oxygen back into tank).

On 6/26/2023 at 10:27 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Did the Oase come with a spray bar?

Yes.

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/26/2023 at 2:40 PM, riioKen said:

Yes, and some hair algae (some are brown and some green)

This is a stubborn one. I found the best thing to do here is just get the plants really growing and keep up on water changes. Eventually, it will lose out to healthy plants. I love the look of glass pipes, but I would encourage you to use the pray bar. More flow distribution is a game changer and is something I hadn't realized until recently. In my opinion, it's second to proper CO2 levels. A spray bar will give better surface agitation when adjusted properly. Higher surface agitation also will increase CO2 stability.

Here's my surface agitation. 

 

[Mmiller2001]

Here's my tank currently. I'm preparing for a competition, so it is a bit haphazard, but for full transparency I'm dosing

30ppm NO3

10ppm PO4

35ppm K

.45ppm Fe as proxy

[riioKen]

On 6/26/2023 at 11:12 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Here's my tank currently. I'm preparing for a competition, so it is a bit haphazard, but for full transparency I'm dosing

30ppm NO3

10ppm PO4

35ppm K

.45ppm Fe as proxy

I LOVE YOUR TANK, its so clean and organized. I have a question, as i said, im using a "leaner" approach" (APT 3 Complete), but this morning i have dosed 5ml of fert instead o 2.5ml, the nitrates are <10ppm while phosphate is around 0,25mg (which is still very low, it should be at 1mg).

How did you manage to get this exactly measurements? 

I have EI dry ferts that i can use, i can even mix it or use it dry directly to the tank. Which do you think is better? Another thing, the light turn On at 9AM and turn OFF at 6PM, this way i can't enjoy the tank, beacause i work till 7PM, i used a split photoperiod but some suggested me that was bad. Do you think that can i increase the light on to 10H? or maybe instead of turning light on at 9AM i change it to a bit later in the morning?

 

Btw im reading your journal, thanks, its amazing.

Edited June 27, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/27/2023 at 2:35 PM, riioKen said:

I LOVE YOUR TANK, its so clean and organized. I have a question, as i said, im using a "leaner" approach" (APT 3 Complete), but this morning i have dosed 5ml of fert instead o 2.5ml, the nitrates are <10ppm while phosphate is around 0,25mg (which is still very low, it should be at 1mg).

How did you manage to get this exactly measurements? 

I have EI dry ferts that i can use, i can even mix it or use it dry directly to the tank. Which do you think is better? Another thing, the light turn On at 9AM and turn OFF at 6PM, this way i can't enjoy the tank, beacause i work till 7PM, i used a split photoperiod but some suggested me that was bad. Do you think that can i increase the light on to 10H? or maybe instead of turning light on at 9AM i change it to a bit later in the morning?

There are calculators like Rotalabutterfly that allow you to calculate dosing to specific ppm's. The hardest part is calculating the true water volume of the aquarium. There's a bit of guessing in the calculations to account for equipment and such 

I think all nutrient paths are equal but I say the best is dry because it's the cheapest and easiest to measure. Plus you can clone any all in one options with dry powders. As far as light schedule, I really do like sticking to max 8 hours and uninterrupted. I work mid shifts and so I have my light come on early so I can enjoy the tank for 3 hours before heading to work. There's no negative impact on doing this yourself so you can get to enjoy the tank. I have tried going 10 hours or more and have had success doing so, but I did have some stubborn string algae pop up on me. 8 hours just seems like the sweet spot for me, and many others to be honest. My fish also love having the lights off a 4pm. They really become active and enjoy the break from the strong lighting.

You can do any light schedule you like. Just adjust the CO2 on/off to match.

[riioKen]

As i said, i have a WRGB II Slim60 2400lm, considering that i have a lot of red plants, do you think that i should upgrade it with a stronger ones? 

I was thinking about WRGB II 60 that gives me 4500lm, or WRGB II PRO80 8100lm. The problem that i have with the Slim60 (an to a certain extent, even with WRGB II 60cm) is that my tank is 80cm long, so the light decrease a lot on the side. What do you think? Im not an aquascaper but i see that my red plants aren't that red. 

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:00 AM, riioKen said:

As i said, i have a WRGB II Slim60 2400lm, considering that i have a lot of red plants, do you think that i should upgrade it with a stronger ones? 

I was thinking about WRGB II 60 that gives me 4500lm, or WRGB II PRO80 8100lm. The problem that i have with the Slim60 (an to a certain extent, even with WRGB II 60cm) is that my tank is 80cm long, so the light decrease a lot on the side. What do you think? Im not an aquascaper but i see that my red plants aren't that red. 

Personally, I would. But I would go with a Weak Aqua P series over the Chihiros. Just know that the app is not as good as the Chihiros, but the light is really nice and is what I'm using. I've used both and prefer the Weak Aqua.

Edited June 28, 2023 by Mmiller2001

[riioKen]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:14 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

But I would go with a Weak Aqua P series over the Chihiros

Unfortunately I live in Europe, here only twinstar and chihiros are available. 

[Mmiller2001]

Which country?

[riioKen]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:26 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Which country?

I'm from Italy.

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/28/2023 at 6:27 AM, riioKen said:

I'm from Italy.

Just double check the size, I think you would need the 900 or 2x 600's.

https://it.aliexpress.com/i/1005001803395630.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2ita4itemAdapt

[riioKen]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:32 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Just double check the size, I think you would need the 900 or 2x 600's.

https://it.aliexpress.com/i/1005001803395630.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2ita4itemAdapt

I don't trust AliExpress very much, both for the slowness of shipping and for the quality. No one knows if what you receive is original or a fake.

About chihiros, do you think that it's better going for the WRGB 2 Pro 60 (60cm extends to 80cm, 6400lm, around 78lm per litres) or the WRGB 2 Pro 80 (80cm extends to 100cm 8100lm, 98lm x litres)?

 

[Mmiller2001]

On 6/29/2023 at 3:42 AM, riioKen said:

I don't trust AliExpress very much, both for the slowness of shipping and for the quality. No one knows if what you receive is original or a fake.

About chihiros, do you think that it's better going for the WRGB 2 Pro 60 (60cm extends to 80cm, 6400lm, around 78lm per litres) or the WRGB 2 Pro 80 (80cm extends to 100cm 8100lm, 98lm x litres)?

 

I prefer light spread all the way across. But a 10cm gap shouldn’t be a problem on the each side. I’d say it’s a personal choice. A bit of gap or a bit of overhang. 

[riioKen]

On 6/28/2023 at 2:14 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

Personally, I would. But I would go with a Weak Aqua P series over the Chihiros. Just know that the app is not as good as the Chihiros, but the light is really nice and is what I'm using. I've used both and prefer the Weak Aqua.

Hey, considering that im starting the 90g, i need a new light, i was buying the WRGB2 Pro90 but i remembered your post about Week Aqua P (P900 in my case), why you prefer it over Chihiros? have you used the WRGB2 Pro? the differences between the two are 2000lm but the Chihirso has 90led vs 156 of week aqua. The Week Aqua official site now support world wide shipping, i can buy the p900 with haning kit + stand + shipping at 360€, while the wrgb2 pro90 with same accessories is aroud 500€ but if the wrbg2 pro is worth the money i dont mind buying it

Edited September 11, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/11/2023 at 4:24 AM, riioKen said:

Hey, considering that im starting the 90g, i need a new light, i was buying the WRGB2 Pro90 but i remembered your post about Week Aqua P (P900 in my case), why you prefer it over Chihiros? have you used the WRGB2 Pro? the differences between the two are 2000lm but the Chihirso has 90led vs 156 of week aqua.

I’ve had 2 wrgb2’s, just not the pro versions. Chihiros is a great light, but they are too expensive now. The Week Aqua has more PAR with just RGB while the Pro has a white channel to help boost par. You also get UV with the Week Aqua. I personally like the Week Aqua over the Chihiros. The WA is fan cooled though and the Chihiros is passively cooled. The WA also comes with the hanging kit. Although some stores remove it and sell it to you. Lame but it is what it is. Can’t go wrong with either, but the price point for the WA is hard to pass on. I like the higher Kelvin WA also.

[riioKen]

On 9/11/2023 at 12:42 PM, Mmiller2001 said:

I’ve had 2 wrgb2’s, just not the pro versions. Chihiros is a great light, but they are too expensive now. The Week Aqua has more PAR with just RGB while the Pro has a white channel to help boost par. You also get UV with the Week Aqua. I personally like the Week Aqua over the Chihiros. The WA is fan cooled though and the Chihiros is passively cooled. The WA also comes with the hanging kit. Although some stores remove it and sell it to you. Lame but it is what it is. Can’t go wrong with either, but the price point for the WA is hard to pass on. I like the higher Kelvin WA also.

i have just bought the WA P900 from the official site, they do world wide shipping https://weekaqua.world/it, it comes with hanging kit, shade and stand for 386$ incl shipping (the WRGB2 Pro, with the same accessories were 540$).

What is the UV light that WA offers for?

Edited September 11, 2023 by riioKen

[Mmiller2001]

On 9/11/2023 at 9:03 AM, riioKen said:

What is the UV light that WA offers for?

Adds another spectrum of lower end blues. It’s not a lot but it’s there if you want it.

WA is the correct choice. If I was going to spend Chihiros money, I’d get a Netlea instead.