Sulawesi Cardinal Shrimp and Rabbitsnails

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I am preparing a Sulawesi tank for cardinal shrimp and everywhere I turn the discussions are about the symbiosis with their rabbit snail brethren. 

 

I am preparing a 20 g long tank with a undergravel plate on one side and a coop large sponge filter on the other. It’s a seasoned tank that once help shell dwelling cichlids. I have large swaths of green hair algae and tons of lava rock, escargot shells and some Java fern along with some Christmas moss. 

Next steps are to increase the pH up to 8. To do this with the aide of Sulawesi salt added to RODI water. Once this starts my next job will be to add rabbitsnails then eventually the cardinal’s. 

I was wondering if my fellow NERMS have rabbitsnail experience and would love to hear your tales and recommendations. 

[Lennie]

I have 16 rabbit snails! 
 

I keep mine at 26C with 8.0 ph, as snails like, high ph, kh and gh.

they love sand. They bury and sleep from time to time. Fine sand is def their favorite substrate

In terms of diet, they share the same diet with my mystery snails. I feed them homemade snellos, blanched green beans, carrots, collard greens, zucchini, rarely spinach, broccoli, pumpkin etc.

they like to climb so lid is recommended. Also as mystery snails parasnail and land somewhere, these guys directly throw themselves to the ground from the highest point of the tank randomly sometimes. So it is for the best if you avoid any decorations close to the glasses of any side of aquarium.

In terms of breeding; they have genders. So you need to have a male and female to have babies, or a female that has mated in the store. They approximately give a birth to a single baby around once a month if you are lucky. And it takes ages for babies to grow. Also a lot of people report of hybridizing between different colors. Not proven by any means, but some colors also seem to be more prolific breeders compared to others. Like golds seem to breed more easily than oranges or chocolates for example.
 

Also I always keep a piece of catappa leaf in my tank and they love to snack on it. Especially babies can be a lil picky about veggies sometimes, so it helps me to make sure they don’t starve.

Mine has never eaten plants, except a couple bites on the floating plants. People usually say they eat java ferns. I served them java ferns. Untouched. I feed my snails daily.

 

Lastly, I currently keep mine with blue neocaridinas. Shrimp love to constantly pick on everything as you know. This behavior may scare snails a lil as shrimp even try to pick on their shell or their faces. So keeping shrimp population low might be a good idea to not get snails unintentionally bullied.

 

If you have any questions, me and my friends are ready to respond! When he is done snacking on green bean ofc 😄 

Ah, just remembered, if you can, def get tank bred ones.

I once had 4 wilds last year, and sadly none made it. They were so picky about the food, refused eating anything I served, was even scared of the sound of sponge filter bubbles, only coming out when the filter was off.

tank breds are highly recommended. Also they usually come with perfect shells if taken care of well. Wilds usually have shell damage, and their shell tips are commonly cut not to damage bags while shipping Ive heard

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’d planned to start to with a mated pair, only one pair, and I was going to doa small group of neos to start and if all went well then Sulawesi cardinals. Thanks for being a great NERM and I’ll hit you up when I get my pair! 

[Lennie]

On 6/19/2023 at 8:54 AM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I’d planned to start to with a mated pair, only one pair, and I was going to doa small group of neos to start and if all went well then Sulawesi cardinals. Thanks for being a great NERM and I’ll hit you up when I get my pair! 

You can ask me anytime here or in dms.

Mated pair! never heard of it for rabbit snails before. 

Their life span isn’t that long sadly, and they grow (or eat, or even move) very slowly

Based on your budget, I would try to aim a small group at least. Because as I mentioned, their lifespan isn’t that long and they grow very slowly. So when we get adults, I think that means they spent a good time of their lifespan already. Especially if you want oranges. They are not that prolific if you want potential babies. You may even end up with no babies at all
 

[nabokovfan87]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:48 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

I was wondering if my fellow NERMS have rabbitsnail experience and would love to hear your tales and recommendations. 

The lennie is the only I know who has even had them before.  Maybe @Cinnebuns has some experience?

@Beardedbillygoat1975 If (moreso when) you have success with the shrimp, I'm buying whatever I need to keep them and getting a tank setup for them! 😂

Given everything going on with the shrimp in their natural homes, that would be a really cool journal / thing to see someone have awesome success with.  Those shrimp need good homes and need to be kept going via the hobby.

[beastie]

Hi. I started with 5 rabbit snails two years or so ago and now I have around 12 🙂 I didnt pay that close attention to the water parameters, my kh and gh are low, my pH is barely above 7. Their temp is always around 25, 26, I even tried 28C. No massive difference between behavior. Their shells are slowly deteriorating but not so much. All my tanks have cuttlefish bone, mineral hearts and crushed eggs shells to attempt to suplement this.

For about a year no babies from the snails, and all my adults snails were around 5 cm. I had to recently move them to a smaller tank, they were initially in my 360l, now in 54l and to be honest dont see that much of a difference. I feed every other day, some veggies, spirulina tablets, some protein (since they are not with any fish, I suplement, otherwise they would eat the fish leftovers). They absolutely climb any glass (my tank was 60cm high), they absolutely fall down from the highest point, but unlike my mystery snail that slowly parachutes down, these go down like rocks and you can hear a thud.

They love to burrow, they ate all my sagitaria, all of my bacopas, most of my soft plants, keep chewing through my planted stargrass even when fed. I have a leaf litter of oak and beech leaves, they are gone within days too. They love snacking on wood too! And they sleep with the operculum opened, half the snout out, on their backs, look like dead for sure. I now keep them without any rooted plants 🙂

 

Some keepers here had them with sulawesi shrimps and the ywarn that the shrimp, once in large numbers, bother the snails so much the snails starve. They are afraid to open, afraid to move, way less active. It is also hard to keep them with any fish, as they like to check them out and poke. Some fish are better, like ember tetras, but they don like the pH, some fish are worse (looking at you, honey gourami that so failed me).

 

[beastie]

Case in point, just went to check them out, this is them all over the glass. How many can you count

 

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 6/19/2023 at 1:50 AM, Lennie said:

People usually say they eat java ferns. I served them java ferns

🤣

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I’d misspoke before - the seller I found on Band was selling “proven breeder groups” of 5 snails so not mates pairs. 

@beastieI was going to keep a full acrylic cover with the shop light on top to secure it but maybe some rocks too! I have tons of plants and clippings to feed them along with tons of veggies and other foods. The tank current has tons of beautiful hair algae think Lucas Bretz aka LRB style tank full of algae. I’m actively trying to grow it knowing these guys and the Sulawesi cardinals are around the clock grazers.

@nabokovfan87absolutely! I’d love to have a nice big group of cardinals that I’m selling off regularly! It would be amazing if I could upscale to the 60 g I have in the garage eventually! 

[Lennie]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 family snello time

Edited June 20, 2023 by Lennie

[Fishandfriends1207]

So I have had my rabbit snail for about a month now. At first everything was great. But I have caught him in the act twice now straight going to town on my tiger lotus. Everything I am reading this does not seem normal. What is going on? I have a fully planted 55 gallon. He does not go after any other plant. But he has eaten about half of one of the plants. I mean he sits at the bottom near the bulb and eats through the stems of the leaves. Fresh, fully alive and thriving leaves.??? I’m seriously about to take him out of the tank because that is my favorite plant. 

[beastie]

How often and what do you feed? Mine ate all the sagittaria, the lotus bulb was super yum and eaten within days. But they tend to eat easier food (pellets, leaves vegetables)

[Fishandfriends1207]

It’s in a community tank. But I feed everyday. Either veggies or pellets to the bottom feeders. Brine shirmp, bloodworms, flake, stick on side tabs. It’s a mixture of stuff for the other fish. But maybe I need to concentrate on him more and make sure he eats what I give him. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Fishandfriends1207

[beastie]

What was always a safe bet for me was to add a bunch of leaves, oak, adder, magnolia, whatever. That was a safety net for me that the snails would eat instead of the plants. In a community tank i noticed the snail is distressed cause when it finally reaches the pellet the fish are poking at it and trying to take it away and it hardly eats any of it.

Maybe feeding at night or repashy thin long stripes or something. They eat very heavily, i feed mine every other day, lettuce, carrots, bell peppers,leafy greens, zucchini,... And those are the foods fish won't eat so they won't bother it too much 

[Lennie]

On 12/30/2023 at 3:56 PM, Fishandfriends1207 said:

It’s in a community tank. But I feed everyday. Either veggies or pellets to the bottom feeders. Brine shirmp, bloodworms, flake, stick on side tabs. It’s a mixture of stuff for the other fish. But maybe I need to concentrate on him more and make sure he eats what I give him. 

You should target feed them with blanched veggies and snellos and algaewafers etc. They are bad at finding food. Dont consider them like mystery snails which can legit smell the food from miles away and go there very fast. Rabbits are easily outcompeted by any other fish/snails in the tank. Usually they are wildcaught and might not be great at accepting normal fish food/wafers. My tip for snails in general is, try blanched veggies at first and once you have a chance to observe what they like eating after many tries of different stuff, start making snellos with those by adding calcium/protein to it so you can easily cover their nutritional needs and no need to deal with blanching veggies everytime. 

they also love leaf litter. Would be great if you can put lots of leaf litter for them to snack on. Mines fav are banana and catappas.

 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Lennie

[Fishandfriends1207]

On 12/30/2023 at 8:45 AM, Lennie said:

You should target feed them with blanched veggies and snellos and algaewafers etc. They are bad at finding food. Dont consider them like mystery snails which can legit smell the food from miles away and go there very fast. Rabbits are easily outcompeted by any other fish/snails in the tank. Usually they are wildcaught and might not be great at accepting normal fish food/wafers. My tip for snails in general is, try blanched veggies at first and once you have a chance to observe what they like eating after many tries of different stuff, start making snellos with those by adding calcium/protein to it so you can easily cover their nutritional needs and no need to deal with blanching veggies everytime. 

they also love leaf litter. Would be great if you can put lots of leaf litter for them to snack on. Mines fav are banana and catappas.

Thank you! I actually did exactly what yall said. I spot feed him directly. Did some blanched veggies. When I put them close by him he went right for it. I went with carrots and just like y’all said the other fish aren’t messing with him at all. I will definitely continue. Now I gotta ask what is a snellos? 

[Fishandfriends1207]

So yet another things since this has been so helpful. I’ve been in the hobby about a year and this is my 4th tank. I had never purchased any snails but of course as with any planted tanks I have many. The rabbit snail was my first purchased one. When I got him from the store the back of his shell was kinda messed up. Idk if you can really see in the picture ( it’s from above the water ) ( I couldn’t get any better pics because he is the back of the tank. But the damage is like big cuts that are white into the shell. He was the only one the store had and was in a tiny little 1 gallon tank. So I took him home to give him a better life. But is there anything I can do to fix his shell or should I even worry about? 

[Lennie]

On 12/31/2023 at 6:13 AM, Fishandfriends1207 said:

But is there anything I can do to fix his shell or should I even worry about? 

Usually the shell damage is unsightly until it gets to a serious level like flesh being exposed. You cant heal it but you can prevent it getting worse. Your new friend seems to have a bad one going in but it is common for the wildcaught snails. Maybe you have noticed but sometimes they climb to the glass or so, and they directly throw themselves on the ground instead of slowly going back again or parasnailing like mysteries do.

Therefore, I suggest to avoid any decoration or rocks around the glass in order to prevent further mechanical damage. Your tank seems to have nothing very close to the tank sides so thats good

Another thing is snail shells are usually mostly made of calcium carbonate. Therefore, when the water is acidic, their shell keeps dissolving slowly and you may notice patches around. The best option is keeping them at higher ph but surely not low. I have mine at 7.5. Other than that try to have a good range of kh and gh in the tank. Calcium in the water column and in the diet is important.

On 12/31/2023 at 6:04 AM, Fishandfriends1207 said:

Now I gotta ask what is a snellos? 

Snellos are basically home made snail foods that are based on your creativitY

You basically mix stuff like veggies, a calcium source(powdered egg shell, calcium source like hikari crab cuisine, calcium carbonate powder etc), protein source (usually needed as that trapdoor is something similar to a finger nail protein If Im not mistaken), algae source ( I use crushed algae wafers or spirulina powder directly), a binder like agar agar or gelatin. You turn it into cubes and keep them in the freezer and feed whenever!

Something like this:

 
you may find many recipes on Lav’s channel.

This is a recipe that uses agar agar instead of gelatin as a binder

https://floridamysterysnails.com/2018/05/30/how-to-make-snello-snail-jello/

Edited December 31, 2023 by Lennie

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I keep them in tanks with overzealous hair algae and that seems to keep them very occupied and away from the plants but yes I’ve heard they will decimate a tank if not target fed!! I am so glad I created this page. Great info above and well done everyone. Have fun!