What is the best flow in a shrimp tank? (I couldn't find any subjects on this already)

[RoyaleButterfly]

Hey everyone!

I recently transported my shrimp over to my 29-gallon planted tank. I had their old filter in there and an aerator. But the red root floaters were being blown all over the tank and at first, the shrimp were fine but this morning they seem like they are wayyyy active and have been holding onto the red root floaters. I removed the aerator keeping the filter and the water is still well oxygenated some of the shrimp went to the bottom of the tank and started scavaging and some of the others stays on the floaters. I have 1 casualty. I googled this for hours this morning and I can't find anything on current or flow for any kind of shrimp. I have less than 40 Neocaridina Davidi I am trying to start a nice size colony. I ordered 2 bigger sponge filters from Aquarium Co-Op. Any suggestions? I don't want them to be super stressed out. Thanks for all the help! 

The picture below is of my 29-gallon with just the sponge filter from their old tank and all their plants and lighting and rocks and wood and Carib Sea for the substrate.

[Lennie]

They indeed like high oxygen content. So rather than increasing flow, try to have a good surface agitation I would say. Sponge filters are very gentle and usually don't cause much flow in the water column but help with surface agitation.

 

From the pictures I can see you have red rilis, reds and blues. Just to make sure, you know that keeping these together make them all gradually go back to wild colored shrimp right? Also this type of very light color substrates make shrimp to show less color.

Btw have you been testing the water? It seems a bit cloudy

[RoyaleButterfly]

Yeah, I didn't know about the colors until after I got them... I got one of those assorted colors batches. I have been testing my water it is 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 80 KH, 150-300 GH, and around 7.0PH according to the Aquarium co-op test strips. I used the bio-clear packets that came with the sand like the local fish store guy said to do but it is still cloudy. I am unsure what else to do to clear it up.

[Lennie]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:53 PM, RoyaleButterfly said:

Yeah, I didn't know about the colors until after I got them... I got one of those assorted colors batches. I have been testing my water it is 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 80 KH, 150-300 GH, and around 7.0PH according to the Aquarium co-op test strips. I used the bio-clear packets that came with the sand like the local fish store guy said to do but it is still cloudy. I am unsure what else to do to clear it up.

Could be nice if you had ammonia test on hand. Do you have any?

Did you cycle the tank? How long has it been running? Shrimp bioload is very minimal but you don't have many plants to read 0 nitrates enough imo. At least from cycling period or after dosing ferts, if you ever did, I believe you should be reading at least some nitrates.

Shrimp spending time on floating plants happens from time to time. However if they spend lots of time near surface, it can be water parameter issues or oxygen problems. That sponge filter seems small for that tank size imo. I believe it is good that you ordered bigger ones as well.

Also I have no clue what bio clear packet is so don't wanna lead you wrong. Never heard of them before.

[nabokovfan87]

This is my setup, also a 29G.

I opt for very high oxygenation. Shrimp are a river species and do well in similar situations as white clouds, Cyprinidae species, and cooler water species. The cooler the water, the more it can hold oxygenation. I keep my tanks, optimally when it isn't summer, at 72-74 degrees. 2 large sponge filters, one extra air stone just because the pump I have on the tank is very strong.

On 5/29/2023 at 12:53 PM, RoyaleButterfly said:

I have been testing my water it is 0 nitrates, 0 nitrites, 80 KH, 150-300 GH, and around 7.0PH according to the Aquarium co-op test strips. I used the bio-clear packets that came with the sand like the local fish store guy said to do but it is still cloudy. I am unsure what else to do to clear it up.

Just give it time. It's likely something that will clear up. If you don't have it clear up any time soon, my suggestion would be to increase filtration, specifically your biological (i.e. ceramic) media.  You have rocks in the tank already, so I would think you're fine there. Given that the ACO filters are very course sponge does explain why it is taking a little bit for the water to clarify. With water changes as well it will clear up.  I have seachem clarity as a cloudiness tool, but either way it should clear up in time. The clarity product requires fine filtration like polyfilter to work properly for cloudy water.

Also, a GH test kit, liquid, is a very useful tool for shrimp keeping.  Keep an eye on where you're at. It's something I specifically had some deaths due to the GH getting slightly low on me.

[RoyaleButterfly]

@nabokovfan87 Yeah this pump is very strong. I wasn't expecting it since the last one wasn't this strong, to begin with. I moved the air stone up towards the top of the surface so it moves the surface not the whole tank. They seem to be enjoying that much more. When I get paid next I guess I will have to invest in the liquid test kit. It will help me be more accurate for sure. 

@Lennie I do not have an ammonia test kit. My tap water comes out with no Nitrates or Nitrites, so I have had a harder time getting the Nitrates up at all with the easy-green and I don't want to overdose so I have been using those 3 pumps a day as it says to and I use BacterAE once or twice a week. The tank has been set up for 10 months. Yeah I didn't know the sponge filters came in different sizes I had just gotten the top seller off Amazon. When I learned about bigger sponge sizes I went for it.  

[TeeJay]

My shrimp sanctuary is a 10 gallon tank. I run a double stacked co op nano sponge filter in the back left corner. A small co op sponge filter in the back right corner. A hygger small air disk stone in the front right corner as well as a aquatop Forza 3 hob. I have lots of floating plants that don't get pushed around to much jlbut I get good oxygenation of the water at the same time. 

I would think I'm a 29 maybe 2 medium sponge filters one in each back corner with a medium size disk air stone somewhere in the mix.

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/30/2023 at 5:42 AM, RoyaleButterfly said:

When I get paid next I guess I will have to invest in the liquid test kit. It will help me be more accurate for sure. 

I would be very very curious to see the results comparison!

 

[RoyaleButterfly]

@TeeJay I am thinking the same thing. I am starting with 2 stacked on the right corner and 1 small on the left corner and then see how that goes. 

@nabokovfan87 I will let you know. This whole thing makes me want to start a Shrimp Tank journal lol

[RoyaleButterfly]

@nabokovfan87 I lost 2 shrimp overnight and one of them went from yellow to having like a dark spot on its head. I tested my water this morning and my KH has dropped to 0, my GH went up to over 150, and my ph dropped from 7.2 to 6.4 I haven't done any water changes, since I have been trying to let my shrimp not freak out. My 2 new filters should be in today or tomorrow so I can add them to the tank along with the old one for a few weeks. I have been cleaning their food out every day and feeding them once a day. I had been adding 3 pumps of easy green a day this week since I had just gotten it in for the plants. so the Nitrates are at 50, and the Nitrites are at 1. I have a wonder shell in there would that have caused this?

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/31/2023 at 8:29 AM, RoyaleButterfly said:

so the Nitrates are at 50, and the Nitrites are at 1

You're getting ammonia from somewhere. Hm...

Cut feeding to every other day or just verify it's the correct amount for shrimp and not over feeding.

The PH swing could explain the death, but explaining the KH swing is another puzzle. Some sort of bioload used the KH. That crashed the PH.  Having a minimum of around 60-80 ppm has done ok with stability for me.

Check for dead fish or any other common reasons for ammonia to spike. Move hardscape and remove food debris, clean filters, etc.

Hopefully we can figure it out!

On 5/31/2023 at 8:29 AM, RoyaleButterfly said:

@nabokovfan87 I lost 2 shrimp overnight and one of them went from yellow to having like a dark spot on its head. I tested my water this morning and my KH has dropped to 0, my GH went up to over 150, and my ph dropped from 7.2 to 6.4 I haven't done any water changes, since I have been trying to let my shrimp not freak out.

Yeah. That is something where the shell can change color due to stress. On my amanos they get reddish color.

[RoyaleButterfly]

On 5/31/2023 at 11:04 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

You're getting ammonia from somewhere. Hm...

Cut feeding to every other day or just verify it's the correct amount for shrimp and not over feeding.

The PH swing could explain the death, but explaining the KH swing is another puzzle. Some sort of bioload used the KH. That crashed the PH.  Having a minimum of around 60-80 ppm has done ok with stability for me.

Check for dead fish or any other common reasons for ammonia to spike. Move hardscape and remove food debris, clean filters, etc.

Hopefully we can figure it out!

Yeah. That is something where the shell can change color due to stress. On my amanos they get reddish color.

Okay, so I have about 30 or fewer Neocardinia shrimp in the tank now. I have 1 mystery snail and some bladder snails. I have 3 kinds of stem plants and Java ferns. I have 2 Mobani driftwood pieces that the java is tied to, one challa wood, and one cluster of alder cones. I got in the new shrimp food from Aquarium Co-op so I added 1 of the nano blocks and I have had the wondershell in there the whole time. I have two pieces of "dragon" stone. (quotation marks because Idk what that is just what I was told my stone is from the Fish Store guy), I have 40 lbs of the sand substrate. I use a shrimp feeding dish so I clean up the leftovers every morning with my turkey baster. I feed Omega One Shrimp and lobster pellets and I use Bacter AE 2x a week. I did have 3-5 babies haven't seen them in a while figured they are hiding or possibly didn't make it. 

I got new shrimp food from Aquarium Co-op but I wasn't sure if I should mix up what I feed them like GirlTalksFish does or not. I have no fish in it. The only filter is the old sponge filter from their old tank and the aerator. The temp stays right around 77 from the heater. Cory says in some of his videos to add Crushed Coral have you found that helps? MY tap water naturally keeps KH around 80. GH is naturally 150 and PH is naturally 7.2 what should I do next? I ordered the GH and KH test kit, and I am not sure if I should just buy the API master test kit or get the ammonia test from the aquarium co-op as well.

And 1 Bamboo shrimp

Edited May 31, 2023 by RoyaleButterfly

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/31/2023 at 9:33 AM, RoyaleButterfly said:

Cory says in some of his videos to add Crushed Coral have you found that helps? MY tap water naturally keeps KH around 80. GH is naturally 150 and PH is naturally 7.2 what should I do next? I ordered the GH and KH test kit, and I am not sure if I should just buy the API master test kit or get the ammonia test from the aquarium co-op as well.

Here is the ACO blog article on the parameters related to crushed coral.  It does explain things a little better.
https://www.aquariumcoop.com/blogs/aquarium/ph-gh-kh
 

Crushed coral will be helpful for KH stability.  It can mix in with the sand and won't look too out of place.  The usual recommendation is 1 lb per 10G.  Given that shrimp are involved you do want to adjust slowly over a few weeks and not right away.  The easiest way to handle that normally is to jut add a little bit at a time and to let the KH slowly rise.  The substrate is a lower flow region, so you'd have that slower release over time.  To go from a very low KH into a "safe range" of 60-80 ppm I would pull some tank water into a 5G bucket and add an airstone.  Monitor that change over a few days (or weeks) and then you can slowly add that buffered water and coral into the tank once you're happy with the levels in the bucket.

If your KH from the tap is good, the GH looks like it's perfect also, then you would want to simply review your maintenance schedule, water change schedule and how you're doing those things.  If KH is crashing it's usually due to a few reasons.  The main two being bioload (or organics in the water) and something called old-tank syndrome that can set in.
 

 

On 5/31/2023 at 9:33 AM, RoyaleButterfly said:

Okay, so I have about 30 or fewer Neocardinia shrimp in the tank now. I have 1 mystery snail and some bladder snails. I have 3 kinds of stem plants and Java ferns. I have 2 Mobani driftwood pieces that the java is tied to, one challa wood, and one cluster of alder cones.

Ammonia would likely come from the snails.  You may have more in there than you realize.  The 30 shrimp are going to be extremely low bioload by comparison.  Adding in easy green will show nitrates in your water testing, but the excess nitrites tells us that it's ammonia and filtration related.  New stuff is on the way, but for now water changes can be helpful while you wait for those things to arrive and to build up the bacteria colonies.

 

On 5/29/2023 at 12:14 PM, RoyaleButterfly said:

The picture below is of my 29-gallon with just the sponge filter from their old tank and all their plants and lighting and rocks and wood and Carib Sea for the substrate.

While the stems and floaters should be your best friend at stopping nitrates from building up, you do want to see them growing a bit more before you can rely on them as a main part of your filtration.  It's relatively new plants along with sand substrate.  It just means it may take time for them to settle in.

[nabokovfan87]

@TeeJay I think your tank has floating plants? Do you always see your shrimp hanging around them?

I was re-skimming the thread and realize no one had commented.  It's very normal for shrimp to spend time on the floating plants and to clean the roots. 

[RoyaleButterfly]

@nabokovfan87 I just went looking through my tank and I have hundreds of bladder snails! And a lot of egg sacks! How do I get rid of them or some of them? 🤔

Update 6-1-2023: lost 3 more shrimp overnight the water parameters are going back up to where they were. Did a small water change today. Got the new filters in and changed the food I was feeding. The shrimp are devouring the Xtreme Shrimp pellets I got from ACO whereas they barely touched the omega one pellets. Turns out I was feeding the snails since the shrimp didn't care for that food. I have had the new filters in with the old filter for about 2 hours and I fed them the new food this morning I have seen much better activity. The 3 I lost last night I could see were directly connected to Ring of Death or they were only half out of their molts. I am going to keep an eye on the tank for a while and hopefully manage it and not need to do any more drastic changes.

Edited June 1, 2023 by RoyaleButterfly
Update

[nabokovfan87]

On 5/31/2023 at 3:59 PM, RoyaleButterfly said:

How do I get rid of them or some of them? 🤔

Sorry about this, I just now saw the post!

I think the only real way is to build or use a snail trap.
 

There are also hand tools from Dennerle that you use along the glass to trap the snails for removal.
 

On 5/31/2023 at 3:59 PM, RoyaleButterfly said:

Update 6-1-2023: lost 3 more shrimp overnight the water parameters are going back up to where they were. Did a small water change today. Got the new filters in and changed the food I was feeding. The shrimp are devouring the Xtreme Shrimp pellets I got from ACO whereas they barely touched the omega one pellets. Turns out I was feeding the snails since the shrimp didn't care for that food. I have had the new filters in with the old filter for about 2 hours and I fed them the new food this morning I have seen much better activity. The 3 I lost last night I could see were directly connected to Ring of Death or they were only half out of their molts. I am going to keep an eye on the tank for a while and hopefully manage it and not need to do any more drastic changes.

We can talk about this in your shrimp journal thread, but I would start with testing GH and KH via liquid test.  I think your setup is correct, food looks good, and it's tied to the water in some capacity.