Fish Breeding for dummies

[ArmandoNvs]

Hello,

I am a long time shrimp breeder.   I started breeding fish for my own enjoyment and perhaps a small profit but I don't want to ship fish directly to customers.  I only want to continue shipping shrimps.

So I asked the LFS if they want to take my fry for either store credit or cash but they said.. well i quite didn't understand the response, something to the effect of "it's a little more work than getting from distributors", but it's a bit disappointed that I support the store buying equipment and livestock, paying their higher prices for than online vendors, to support them.  But apparently it's not a 2-way street.  Oh well.

In any case, I am wondering if I should sell them at local meetings or to another online vendor?   

Thanks in advance.

Edited March 31, 2023 by ArmandoNvs

[Cory]

@ArmandoNvs I recommend watching my series on breeding fish for profit. I explain why it's more of a pain to buy from a hobbyist and explain the ways to break down those barriers for your local stores. You can find the series listed here in our advice center. Specifically #5 but also videos also chime in on more tips. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/help-center#/collection/4960/article/24517

[ArmandoNvs]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:25 PM, Cory said:

@ArmandoNvs I recommend watching my series on breeding fish for profit. I explain why it's more of a pain to buy from a hobbyist and explain the ways to break down those barriers for your local stores. You can find the series listed here in our advice center. Specifically #5 but also videos also chime in on more tips. https://www.aquariumcoop.com/pages/help-center#/collection/4960/article/24517

Cory I did watch the latest one, where you mentioned the additional work and space for the stores to take fry from a hobbyist, which I understand.  However, I feel like it should be a 2-way street, where we are OK in paying more buying equipment/livestock from the store to support them, and they willing to allocate some of their space to take in hobbyist fry, which as we all know, is much better quality than imports.    I don't know, just feels like a punch in the face after spending all the money at the store knowing that I could have bought much cheaper online.

[Cory]

On 3/31/2023 at 12:35 PM, ArmandoNvs said:

Cory I did watch the latest one, where you mentioned the additional work and space for the stores to take fry from a hobbyist, which I understand.  However, I feel like it should be a 2-way street, where we are OK in paying more buying equipment/livestock from the store to support them, and they willing to allocate some of their space to take in hobbyist fry, which as we all know, is much better quality than imports.    I don't know, just feels like a punch in the face after spending all the money at the store knowing that I could have bought much cheaper online.

I understand where you are coming from. But it's not how the world works. Most industries work this way. If you go buy veggies from your grocery store. Then plant them in your garden. You're not shocked when they won't buy them back to sell them in their store.  I still recommend watching the whole series. Most people won't do the steps.

A business does a lot of things to earn your business. An example would be, they take credit cards, do you have the ability to take payment form them in credit card? Do you have a way to provide them a receipt? Will you be reporting the taxes to the state? Do you have staff with business hours to answer questions about your product? The list goes on. The more of these things you provide, the easier it is. Do you have a policy on your goods? Do you have a delivery schedule?

Also realize that it's work to change vendors. It's like when you change something at work. Even if it saves money long term for the company, in the short term it costs more money and people get irritated they have to change the work flow. You need to bring enough value on your side to get the sale.

On the flip side, the store needs to bring enough value you to support them. That is up to each person. I've had customers walk out after not matching an 8 cent difference on food on amazon compared to us.

We only buy from a handful of breeders as most don't have a business license and report the sales correctly and it's a nightmare for our accountants. We need a product we are seeking to buy, in the quantities we need, when we need them and sold to us legally with minimal disruption to business. Achieve those things and it is likely your store will buy from you.

Stores gets asked 10 times a day to buy fish. From the 7 yr old down the road, to the 70 yr old guy who think his fish are worth millions. Don't forget about the weekly call from the new home owner who bought a house and they have rare koi worth thousands they will sell for only a few thousand each. Chances are, you've just hit the first default response. Build the relationship with the store and usually it works out.

[ArmandoNvs]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:47 PM, Cory said:

I understand where you are coming from. But it's not how the world works. Most industries work this way. If you go buy veggies from your grocery store. Then plant them in your garden. You're not shocked when they won't buy them back to sell them in their store.  I still recommend watching the whole series. Most people won't do the steps.

A business does a lot of things to earn your business. An example would be, they take credit cards, do you have the ability to take payment form them in credit card? Do you have a way to provide them a receipt? Will you be reporting the taxes to the state? Do you have staff with business hours to answer questions about your product? The list goes on. The more of these things you provide, the easier it is. Do you have a policy on your goods? Do you have a delivery schedule?

Also realize that it's work to change vendors. It's like when you change something at work. Even if it saves money long term for the company, in the short term it costs more money and people get irritated they have to change the work flow. You need to bring enough value on your side to get the sale.

On the flip side, the store needs to bring enough value you to support them. That is up to each person. I've had customers walk out after not matching an 8 cent difference on food on amazon compared to us.

We only buy from a handful of breeders as most don't have a business license and report the sales correctly and it's a nightmare for our accountants. We need a product we are seeking to buy, in the quantities we need, when we need them and sold to us legally with minimal disruption to business. Achieve those things and it is likely your store will buy from you.

Stores gets asked 10 times a day to buy fish. From the 7 yr old down the road, to the 70 yr old guy who think his fish are worth millions. Don't forget about the weekly call from the new home owner who bought a house and they have rare koi worth thousands they will sell for only a few thousand each. Chances are, you've just hit the first default response. Build the relationship with the store and usually it works out.

Cory,

Although I agree with everything you said, that is looking from the LFS perspective.  And the answer to all your questions is yes, licensed business, reporting taxes, can take credit card and provide receipts, although I wasn't even asked about that nor I was asked to show pictures of the fish, so it's like "well we are not interested".

And on the other hand, looking from the customer perspective we can ask the same number of questions when we do business with a store.   Do you quarantine?  Do you accept returns?  Will you store my credit card number safely or will it be stolen/hacked?   And it goes on.   

Like you said, you only buy from a handful of breeders, probably because they produce good quality livestock (aside the business requirements).   So if I had an LFS and someone approached me asking if I want to buy their fish, I would ask tons of questions and look at their fish and then I'd make a decision.    Otherwise if this person actually has great fish and I dismiss the guy immediately, he will become a competitor that may sell better quality livestock than the LFS.

But it's all good.  I do this because I am passioned about the hobby and I have dealt with selling livestock that I've bred over the many years including saltwater corals fish seahorses you name it.   Feels like it always works out better selling directly to other hobbyists than to stores, until someone can prove me wrong.

Edited April 1, 2023 by ArmandoNvs

[lewk]

Often in situations like these there could be more to the story. As @Cory says it sounds like you got the default response. Maybe there's no budging from them - if so, I get that it sucks but I find it'd best just to shrug and move on. 

What fish were you intending to sell? How large are they? When and how would you be bringing them into the store? Did you have a price in mind? These are all questions worth thinking about that could factor in to their situation.

I also think this might be time for some introspection. Why should your LFS buy from you rather than the distributor, especially when it's more work? You have to realize that you're the seller in this situation, so you should be sure to offer something that the LFS wants to make up for this. This might be lower prices or larger, healthier fish, but you certainly need something to make them consider your fish over others. I think Cory goes over this pretty well in his breeding for profit youtube series. 
 

[ArmandoNvs]

On 4/1/2023 at 11:17 PM, lewk said:

Why should your LFS buy from you rather than the distributor, especially when it's more work? 
 

You guys are absolutely right.  So since I don't want to ship fish (we all know how risky that is), I've decided to give away for free all the fish I breed to local hobyists who are looking for the fish I breed.  This way everybody is happy.

Thanks for the advice.

Edited April 2, 2023 by ArmandoNvs

[Cinnebuns]

I think one piece you are missing on your asking tons of questions thing is the time investment aspect. Time is a resource. LFS get tons of people requesting they buy their live stock or rescue their fish they weren't prepared for. To weed through every single request is highly time consuming and not worth the investment. We as hobbyists have the burden to prove our product is worth buying. They do not have the burden to seek that information out. When you stop in, have a chat. Mention what you are working on. Ask some questions. Build a report. Get them familiar with your worth as a hobbyist. Another thing I've done is literally ask the owner "what are you interested in stocking?" instead of "this is what I have. Do you want it?"  Then you are building something that's easier for them to work with.  

Edit to add:  My LFS has also been a hard nut to crack because he's been burned by a lot of hobbyists before and he also breeds over 80 species (including fish, inverts, reptiles, amphibians and rodents) on his own. I have had to work pretty hard to get them to buy some of my stuff. 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Cinnebuns