Honey Gourami Sexing

[newfishwhodis]

I picked up 3 gourami about a month ago and was told by the LFS they were Sunset Honey Gourami, 2 male and 1 female. I've done a bunch of research (including reviewing the other posts here on the same topic) and still can't confidently say the fish sold to me as a female, is actually a female (vs subdominant or wild type, etc...). 

Here is a picture of the fish in question, hard to see here as this picture isn't recent but "her" anal fin also has a bit of blue/black coming in next to the yellow.

 

And a short video from today, be sure to enable HD otherwise its hard to see much of anything (sorry if focus/framing is bad)

 

Thanks!

Edited January 25, 2023 by newfishwhodis
updated for clarity

[TheSwissAquarist]

This shows the sexual dimorphism quite well:

 

[Lennie]

 

generally it is advised around 1m 3f ratio, but if you see no agression or problems, let them be. @Guppysnail has kept 6 since juviniles and they ended up as 5m1f and no issues at all!

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Lennie

[Guppysnail]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:07 AM, Lennie said:

has kept 6 since juviniles and they ended up as 5m1f and no issues at all!

I’ve actually only had these a few months. I tried to separate them but they had formed a bonded social group so I had to put them back together. None would even eat when apart. 
My boys look like bullets and my girl looks disc shaped as a whole. I could not tell the difference at first but once @laritheloud (our resident forum gourami expert) sexed them it then became obvious 

girl

boy

[laritheloud]

On 1/25/2023 at 2:07 AM, Lennie said:

Probably two males and one female(pale looking one female imo), but it is kinda hard see their top dorsal fin from video. It may be nice if you would like to share close pics of others too

Best sign is if the top dorsal fin is more rounded, it is a female. It ends a bit longer and like a triangle, it is a male!

males generally tend to be more colorful too

generally it is advised around 1m 3f ratio, but if you see no agression or problems, let them be. @Guppysnail has kept 6 since juviniles and they ended up as 5m1f and no issues at all!

I think it is easier to see the dorsal fin shape and round body differences between the m and f;

I hate this graphic, LOL. The top fish in the graphic is a male sunset honey gourami, sure. The bottom fish is indeed a female fish, but that is a thicklip gourami, not a honey gourami. The points in the fins are not reliable indicators for honey gouramis with regard to sex. Ever.

In any case, OP, you definitely have two males (sunset or golden type) and one female (wild-type) by my eye. Enjoy!

EDIT to add: It is normal for female wild-type honey gouramis to have a bluish/blackish tint to the front of their anal fin. This occurred in all of my wild-type females. You should see her color up from time to time when doing a courtship/dominance shimmy with the boys; she'll get an orange-ish tint but not intense or vivid like a true male. Most of the time she'll stay that silvery color!

Edited January 25, 2023 by laritheloud

[Lennie]

Him now:

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Lennie

[Rube_Goldfish]

I have two males that were supposed to be a M:F pair but we didn't correctly sex them as juveniles in the shop. They don't get along, per se, but they don't really bother each other, either; they mostly just leave each other alone. Part of me wants to get some females for them, but I'd have to get multiple females because there are multiple males, and it's so hard to sex juveniles (for me, anyway), I'd probably just end up with more males anyway!

[Lennie]

On 1/25/2023 at 5:33 PM, Rube_Goldfish said:

it's so hard to sex juveniles (for me, anyway), I'd probably just end up with more males anyway!

😄 

If dorsals don't play any role, I have no clue if there is even a valid sign to sex them as juviniles at this point.

[laritheloud]

On 1/25/2023 at 9:40 AM, Lennie said:

😄

If dorsals don't play any role, I have no clue if there is even a valid sign to sex them as juviniles at this point.

The most reliable method -- not foolproof, ime -- is to check the 'rim' color of the dorsal fin. If it is lemon yellow, male. If it is orange, female.

[Lennie]

On 1/25/2023 at 6:12 PM, laritheloud said:

The most reliable method -- not foolproof, ime -- is to check the 'rim' color of the dorsal fin. If it is lemon yellow, male. If it is orange, female.

I've seen this once before, but like the ones in the video seem to have quite orange-y dorsal fin rims to me. I'm not sure I can tell any difference in this way personally. but I will keep that in mind

 

Also I've just noticed the CPD behind LOL 😄 

[laritheloud]

Just to demonstrate how subtle the male/female honey gourami fin shape difference is:

 

The only way you can 'tell' is if you compare side-by-side, and even then, I had both males and females in the tank and couldn't distinguish a difference in shape. I now only have one male honey gourami or else I'd show more pictures of my own; I had both wild-types and sunset/gold-types.

Also, the orange rims on a female are pretty pronounced. It's not foolproof, as I mentioned, but it should be a pretty stark difference even with the male's slightly orange tip vs. a female's:

I also generally notice that a female's body shape is different than a male's, and females will be more interested in puttering around the tank for food while males are more likely to act like they're patroling.

Edited January 25, 2023 by laritheloud

[newfishwhodis]

Thanks for the replies everyone, appreciate all the insight. I was able to capture a slightly better video at higher res when the fish weren't zooming around quite as much, although still fought with the autofocus. There are some decent shots here of the suspected female with the other 2 for comparison's sake. I also feel this shows the orange and blue coloring on the fins more clearly, so if orange vs yellow = female 🤞

 

A couple slightly better pictures as well:

suspected female:

 

the larger of the 2 males:

 

On 1/25/2023 at 9:54 AM, laritheloud said:

females will be more interested in puttering around the tank for food while males are more likely to act like they're patroling

What's interesting is up until today I would've described the dynamic in my tank the this way, the largest male doing the most chasing (only ocassional), the pale one trying to mind its own business and hunt in the floating plant roots, but the last couple of days the pale one has actually been chasing the other 2 a bit. It seems like its been mostly just after feeding, and stops after a few minutes, so maybe food related? I'll monitor it since it doesn't seem to be constant right now and no actual damage seems to be done.

Thanks again everyone, will update as the fish matures/colors.

Edited January 30, 2023 by newfishwhodis

[laritheloud]

Those pictures are excellent! I’m still going to maintain she is female, though not a honey sunset or a honey gold. She looks wild type to me. When she colors beside a male (during courtship or dominance) she will darken to a deep rusty brown and MIGHT get an outline of a beard, even — but she’ll never color up as vibrantly as a wild type male. 
 

id also be prepared to never see breeding colors. Despite having males and females I have never had a successful breed. I never tried to do it intentionally, but they won’t necessarily get it done on their own.