Crash course in apisto breeding?

[Scapexghost]

I want to try keeping apistos for the first time and naturally i want to breed them. It will be a 10 gallon blackwater tank with just the pair. So, for those who have bred apistos, what should i know? Which are the easiest to breed or which species do the best in hard water. I have seen the co op vid on setting up an apisto breeding tank, and i have some coconut shells.

[TheSwissAquarist]

@tolstoy21 actively breeds them; otherwise I can also recommend the KeepingFishSimple YouTube channel.

[tolstoy21]

Cacatuoides is probably the easiest and most flexible to breed in a wider range of water params.

I have moderately acidic water that I breed them in, with a Ph around 6.4 - 6.8., but my GH is near 9, so it's also pretty hard. I've bred quite a few batches of cacatuoides in this.

Agassizii might be another good choice.

The key is to get a pair that has been tank bred for generations (these are usually the more colorful ones, like the double, triple or super red) and not wild caught, as these will be less tolerant of hard water. They can live in it, but they might prove more difficult to breed.

[anewbie]

On 12/27/2022 at 11:44 PM, Scapexghost said:

I want to try keeping apistos for the first time and naturally i want to breed them. It will be a 10 gallon blackwater tank with just the pair. So, for those who have bred apistos, what should i know? Which are the easiest to breed or which species do the best in hard water. I have seen the co op vid on setting up an apisto breeding tank, and i have some coconut shells.

The only species you can try to breed in a 10 gallon aquarium is a. pucallpaensis (these are a clear water species and do not require blackwater but can live in blackwater). There are a lot of very interesting species that you can breed in blackwater;  a readily available species is a. baenschi; these are pair forming so there is not so much aggression between male/female as exist with polygamous species like cockatoo and agassizii (but female are very picky about mates so buying a pair that has already formed is easier); however you really need a 20 long for all these larger fishes; or as an absolute min a 20 high. I suppose you could try borelli in a 15; but like most polygamous species the female will be hyper aggressive to the male when she has fry (however the male is not overly aggressive to the female when she is not ready to breed like agassizii and cockatoo). 

Anyway with blackwater condition there are a lot more interesting species than the commonly available agassizii, cockatoo and such. 

 

However if you are serious about this project you will need a larger aquarium; and if you go with a polygamous species you will almost certainly end up with dead fishes in a 10.

Edited December 29, 2022 by anewbie

[Scapexghost]

On 12/29/2022 at 12:50 AM, anewbie said:

species the female will be hyper aggressive to the male when she has fry

Would a 10 work if i were to rehome the male after the fry hatch?

[anewbie]

On 12/29/2022 at 4:17 AM, Scapexghost said:

Would a 10 work if i were to rehome the male after the fry hatch?

Difficult - consider some options; if you go with a polygamous species the male will be quite aggressive towards the female until she is ready to breed so you have to keep them sep until she is ready; then you can put the male in and when she has laid eggs and retire to her cave you can remove the male - she will stay in the cave until the eggs hatch (of course she might not use the cave you create but another recessed or easy to guard area; so consider that); if you fail to remove the male the tank will be quite small and there is  a chance she will kill him. 

-

If you go with a pair forming species - if you purchase a pair that has already formed then there won't be much aggression but most of these species are larger and the 10 is rather cramp for them; if you purchase them when young or prior to forming a pair then there will be a lot of aggression until a pair forms and you will need more than 1 female and possibly more than 1 male to get a pair as the female can be picky.

It is less common but even with polygamous species the male can be rejected by the female esp if she is large and he is on the smaller size. It is nearly always that the female will decide who is a suitable mate.

-

Individual fishes are unique and some are more aggressive than others so if you happen with more passive fishes then your chances will improve. Also some species are more aggressive than others so even with a 20 you want to research your chosen species or at least check with others who have kept them. There are people that use a 10 to breed apisto but it is a bit risky esp for a new breeder. Also consider where you will raise the fry - a 10 isn't going to provide a lot of room for 50 frys or even 25 frys.

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by anewbie

[The endler guy]

On 12/28/2022 at 12:44 AM, Scapexghost said:

I want to try keeping apistos for the first time and naturally i want to breed them. It will be a 10 gallon blackwater tank with just the pair. So, for those who have bred apistos, what should i know? Which are the easiest to breed or which species do the best in hard water. I have seen the co op vid on setting up an apisto breeding tank, and i have some coconut shells.

I think the ease of breeding dwarf cichlids is a major part of their appeal 

[Scapexghost]

On 12/29/2022 at 8:51 AM, Aiden Carter said:

I think the ease of breeding dwarf cichlids is a major part of their appeal 

1000 percent agree. Big reason i want to try them. So far ive only bred livebearers and cherry shrimp. So i think theyre a good next step.

On 12/29/2022 at 8:51 AM, Aiden Carter said:

I think the ease of breeding dwarf cichlids is a major part of their appeal 

1000 percent agree. Big reason i want to try them. So far ive only bred livebearers and cherry shrimp. So i think theyre a good next step.

[anewbie]

If you just want the experience in a 10 then go with a. pucallpaensis; they are easy to care for; can fit in a 10 and are not too expensive. They are not as flashy as some species but they will work in a 10; also they do not require blackwater. The are quasi pair forming so m/f aggression is not as harsh as with some other species though sometimes the female gets a little confused and will snap at the male.

[jwcarlson]

@anewbie where are Macmasteri on the spectrum of polygamous to pair forming?  
I'm becoming pretty interested in trying to breed some and I like the way the Macmasteri look, but want to make sure I don't bite off more than I can chew from an aggression standpoint.  I don't mind a challenge, though.

Edited December 29, 2022 by jwcarlson

[anewbie]

On 12/29/2022 at 2:52 PM, jwcarlson said:

@anewbie where are Macmasteri on the spectrum of polygamous to pair forming?  
I'm becoming pretty interested in trying to breed some and I like the way the Macmasteri look, but want to make sure I don't bite off more than I can chew from an aggression standpoint.  I don't mind a challenge, though.

They are pair bonding. One thing to be aware of is most domestic breeds are heavily inbred to get wonderful colours but have 'weak' genetics. Wild caught are more hearty but less colourful; though agaszii wild caught can be extremely colourful. So if you decide to buy Macs you might find a hobbyist who has taken the time to mix up genetics a bit to keep them hearty. The gold versions are quite nice looking. You can read more about them here:

http://www.dwarfcichlid.com/Apistogramma_macmasteri.php

and

here

https://www.apistogramma.com/forum/threads/apistogramma-macmasteri-harem-stocking.24263/

 

(on the 2nd link you want to read post #6)

 

Edited December 29, 2022 by anewbie

[Scapexghost]

On 12/29/2022 at 11:43 AM, anewbie said:

If you just want the experience in a 10 then go with a. pucallpaensis; they are easy to care for; can fit in a 10 and are not too expensive. They are not as flashy as some species but they will work in a 10; also they do not require blackwater. The are quasi pair forming so m/f aggression is not as harsh as with some other species though sometimes the female gets a little confused and will snap at the male.

Ill do pucallpaensis then. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!