Where have all the nitrates gone? *da do do do, da do do do*

[jwcarlson]

37 gallon tank

Stocking: boat load of cherry shrimp, 8 kerri tetras, 3 cardinals, 1 betta, 5 sterbai, 1 bristlenose (and 2 tiny baby ones), 3 borneo suckers... I think that's it.  I don't know if that's a lot of fish, but with the footprint it seems busy enough.  So far the betta w/ tetras has been OK, though I think taking all of the water lettuce away stressed him a bit, so I got him a log which he does seem to like.   Also lots of bladder, trumpet, and some rabbit snails.

You can kind of see what's to offer from a plant standpoint.  Many of them are about a year old and unfortunately were planted in substrate at one point or another, before I pulled them to the wood.  So the java ferns were in really rough shape and actually seem to be doing better.  They were stressed and made dozens of baby ferns on their leaves.  About the only thing that's thriving for the most part in my opinion is the anubias.  Everything else is just kind of bumping along.  Have had some stem plants in here as well and they seem to do really well for a few weeks and then disappear *seemingly* overnight.  Now recently, I pulled just about all the dwarf water lettuce out because the whole tank was covered and it was clearly causing an issue.  Since then, the anubias have sent new leaves, including the bottom ones which haven't done much for some time.

I do water changes every other weekend, about 50-60%.  I forgot to do a test before, but after the nitrates tested somewhere around 10 ppm using A-C test strips.  So I pumped in eight squirts of Easy Green.  24 hours later (tonight) I do another test and it MIGHT have been 15 ppm, it was slightly darker pink than last night, but it sure didn't look like much of anything.  So tonight I did another 8 pumps.  About a  year ago I had someone tell me Easy Green was about 3 ppm per pump per 10 gallons.  So for about 40 gallons my 8 pumps should have added about 6 ppm and another 6 tonight.  Obviously minus whatever the plants are absorbing in the 24 hours between.  

No real algae issues, the highest anubias have some BB and green spot, I hydrogen peroxided them and the shrimp seem to be cleaning it up now.  I don't want to do anything crazy.  I'm considering that the pothos is the culprit and that it will just be impossible to reasonably get ahead of the curve with it in there maybe?  I have a much larger one in my discus tank and the nitrates in there are basically zero (but doing 90% nightly water changes).  I haven't been consistent overtime with root tabs, but I have been giving the sad sword in the back corner, the val (tiny sad thing under the heater, I used to have runners, but they apparently all died), and the crypts tabs every water change for the last three changes.  

Trying to not get too out of whack and cause some big issue, but would almost welcome something drastic changing, honestly.  

What would be some suggestions?  Stay the course?  Quit changing water until nitrates build?  Keep daily easy green until I see some "therapeutic" level accumulate?  

Today 12/19:

Right after water change 12/3:

Before water lettuce removal 12/2:

Edited December 20, 2022 by jwcarlson

[nabokovfan87]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

Stocking: boat load of cherry shrimp, 8 kerri tetras, 3 cardinals, 1 betta, 5 sterbai, 1 bristlenose (and 2 tiny baby ones), 3 borneo suckers... I think that's it. 

Firstly, the Betta and Borneo loaches are going to want very different tank setups. Given that they are in the same tank one of those two isn't going to do well given how things are setup.  The loaches will want high oxygenation and good flow, 72-74 degree water. The Betta will want low flow, as well as 79-81 degree water temp.

 

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

So the java ferns were in really rough shape and actually seem to be doing better. 

I believe they also don't do well in warm temps, but I can't specifically remember the advice I was given. I mention this as something for others to comment on or something to research further.

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

So I pumped in eight squirts of Easy Green.

You're talking a double dose. Just me mentioning this for clarification.

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

  So tonight I did another 8 pumps.  About a  year ago I had someone tell me Easy Green was about 3 ppm per pump per 10 gallons.  So for about 40 gallons my 8 pumps should have added about 6 ppm and another 6 tonight.  Obviously minus whatever the plants are absorbing in the 24 hours between.  

There is a lot of assumptions here and testing may or may not be explaining the results you're seeing. The way I handle things is generally as follows.

1. You're better off with small doses daily or spread through the week. You're better with doses spread out compared to one large dose once a week.

2. I would dose normally and test daily specifically logging nitrates. If you see a gradual decline or a constant than it would indicate that feeding and your fish bioload aren't adding to the plant fertilization in a meaningful way. This is a good thing because it means you can control dosing via testing a little bit easier. (Again, I'm assuming this)

3. If your bar is 10ppm nitrates, you'd dose the tank as normal and then test midweek. If your nitrates are lower than desired, add another dose. If your nitrates are constant and where you want them to be, then consider halving the dose and dosing 2x a week.

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

What would be some suggestions?  Stay the course?  Quit changing water until nitrates build?  Keep daily easy green until I see some "therapeutic" level accumulate?  

Don't quit changing water. That will introduce more issues than solutions.

Your main path would be controlling the floating plants and light while . monitoring dosing levels as mentioned above. This is why some tanks use rings to corral floating plants and keep them slightly in check and give the other plants a chance to get some light and nutrients.

You're floating plants are likely choking out the other plants.

This isn't just in terms of lights but also in terms of nutrients. Having free access to carbon let's them thrive.

[Anjum]

On 12/19/2022 at 9:46 PM, jwcarlson said:

I'm considering that the pothos is the culprit and that it will just be impossible to reasonably get ahead of the curve with it in there maybe?

This. Pothos is a beast. You can give the leaves & roots a trim if you don't want to remove it completely. 

This tank stays at practically 0 nitrates. 

[Winstons_estate]

That is a really beautiful Betta fish! 🙂

for the stocking you have, 60% water changes seem excessive

I usually test for nitrates once a week and ONLY change water IF nitrates read above 40ppm, you are pouring a lot of easy green down the drain IMO.

[jwcarlson]

If there were appreciable nitrates at water change, I think I would agree.  But it's kind of eating it all up.

I don't mind doing the water changes, I change about 65 gallons in my 75 gallon discus tank every night.

I've been testing pretty frequently since posting, dosing easy green a bit, and maintaining what looks like about 25 ppm of nitrates.  Also cleaning out water lettuce as it escapes the hoop that somewhat contains it.  Unfortunately I absolutely destroyed my best anubias trying to kill the black beard algae.  Apparently I left the peroxide on too long or dosed it too much or something.  All the big leaves are dead.  I guess we'll see how it bounces back.  

If I can keep this somewhat stable, I will probably skip next week's "scheduled" water change and see what happens.  I have extremely hard water, so I don't think there's necessarily an issue with running out of minerals or anything, generally.

Edited December 26, 2022 by jwcarlson

[JoeQ]

You might also want to check your testing equipment.  I used to have consistently low nitrates, upon opening a new can of test strips I discovered my old strips were wildly inaccurate!  🤣

[jwcarlson]

Truthfully, the strips report exactly what I would expect based on tank and plant conditions.  And it does respond as expected based on Easy Green input.  

I can do an API liquid test to compare to the AC Strips, but every time I've done that in the past it's been spot on.  I suppose it doesn't hurt.  

[JoeQ]

On 12/26/2022 at 5:14 PM, jwcarlson said:

Truthfully, the strips report exactly what I would expect based on tank and plant conditions.  And it does respond as expected based on Easy Green input.  

I can do an API liquid test to compare to the AC Strips, but every time I've done that in the past it's been spot on.  I suppose it doesn't hurt.  

For the longest time I wondered where they went. And had this nagging voice in my head telling me to get a 3rd party test..... But I am stubborn, I listen to no one!!! Even to that voice in my head, many times to my own detriment!  🤣

[Patrick_G]

The pump on the bottle of easy green isn’t always accurate. My current bottle is now dispensing about .3ml per pump instead of 1ml so it’s pretty far off. It’s normally about .5ml per pump. 

[jwcarlson]

Yeah, my oldest bottle is definitely not squirting well.  The newer one is OK still.  I think there's a big enough sweet spot (I hope), that it doesn't need to be perfect. 

[Patrick_G]

On 12/26/2022 at 6:10 PM, jwcarlson said:

Yeah, my oldest bottle is definitely not squirting well.  The newer one is OK still.  I think there's a big enough sweet spot (I hope), that it doesn't need to be perfect. 

I’ve been using this

https://www.aquariumcoop.com/products/aquarium-co-op-measuring-glass

[Bev C]

 test your water out of the tab  i had a nitrates problem and found out my nitrates was bad out of the sink  i had to pretreat the water before adding to tank ,, that might not help but would not hurt it either  i use a pipette from ACO  ACO pipette to measure the Easy Green my pump sometimes work sometimes  not  i only have to measure 5 and half  ml for my 55 gallon per week  but i usually  break it down put in 1 ml per day and stretch out out a little per day my plants seems likes it better getting feed a little every day   plus i had to adjust my light  it’s density  too  best wishes

Edited December 27, 2022 by Bev C