Tap water for my tank has 8.4 pH can I have cherry shrimp?

[Zesul]

On another forum everyone helped me figure out that it was just my tap water aging to high pH levels and not my substrate raising my pH. My question is to any shrimp keepers is will cherry shrimp be able to live at those levels or do I have to make changes. I don't know if I can afford to be buying gallons of distilled water for my weekly changes. Any advice would help.

P.S. Tank is still cycling right now so sorry for the crazy algae bloom, but the plants are doing really well so I'm not too worried.

[DiscusLover]

On 12/17/2022 at 3:35 PM, Zesul said:

On another forum everyone helped me figure out that it was just my tap water aging to high pH levels and not my substrate raising my pH. My question is to any shrimp keepers is will cherry shrimp be able to live at those levels or do I have to make changes. I don't know if I can afford to be buying gallons of distilled water for my weekly changes. Any advice would help.

P.S. Tank is still cycling right now so sorry for the crazy algae bloom, but the plants are doing really well so I'm not too worried.

I do not believe that having 8.4 will be an issue. If its a long acclimation and no rapid changes in water parameters your shrimp should be fine. Try to get shrimp locally.

[Cinnebuns]

When it comes to shrimp the paramaters that are important isn't what Google says to keep them at but what they were raised in. Ph actually is not the primary factor in this. GH is more important but both need to be considered as well as KH and possibly even TDS if you wanna get that far. What I suggest is cheating PH, KH and GH of your tank. Then, seek out someone breeding cherry shrimp as close as possible to those. At that point you have a goal to work towards with your water and can figure out if it's possible. 

There is still limitations to this. My tap water is very high in all three parameters. So high that nobody will be breeding them in that. I did happen to find someone on the forum who was breeding blue velvets in higher parameters than a majority of people which made it easier to adjust my water. I've found that all I need to do is to let my water sit for 24 hours. This allows the minerals to fall to the bottom. I then skim the water off the top which is then lower GH than the tap. In my case it takes my 21 GH water down to 14. 14 is still high for most neos but it works for these since they were raised in 14-16 GH water. 

Another option is what many people do and that is using RO water and remineralizjng it. This way you can control exactly what the levels are. 

[Zesul]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:42 PM, DiscusLover said:

I do not believe that having 8.4 will be an issue. If its a long acclimation and no rapid changes in water parameters your shrimp should be fine. Try to get shrimp locally.

The water at my house is well water that has been softened so I'm not entirely sure what the water in my area is like and unfortunately the closest local fish store I have is about 30 minutes away. Would their water parameters still be close to mine?

[Zesul]

On 12/17/2022 at 11:53 PM, Cinnebuns said:

GH is more important but both need to be considered as well as KH and possibly even TDS if you wanna get that far. What I suggest is cheating PH, KH and GH of your tank.

Just tested my GH and KH for my aged tap water that I use for the tank. The KH was about 200ppm, the GH I have a harder time reading but I think its about 150 ppm. I'm still new to these tests so hopefully I read them right the GH color change is hard to see.

[Cinnebuns]

On 12/18/2022 at 12:03 PM, Zesul said:

Just tested my GH and KH for my aged tap water that I use for the tank. The KH was about 200ppm, the GH I have a harder time reading but I think its about 150 ppm. I'm still new to these tests so hopefully I read them right the GH color change is hard to see.

How many drops was that?  People usually use that to state the gh and kh rather than the ppm so I'm not sure how to judge it. 

[Zesul]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:19 PM, Cinnebuns said:

How many drops was that?  People usually use that to state the gh and kh rather than the ppm so I'm not sure how to judge it.

KH was 11 drops and GH was 10 drops.

[Cinnebuns]

On 12/18/2022 at 6:24 PM, Zesul said:

KH was 11 drops and GH was 10 drops.

That's slightly on the high side but works for cherry shrimp. I actually keep mine in 14 GH tbh and even higher KH. Like I said, the most important factor is the GH and KH the shrimp was raised in. That is what they are thriving in and so will increase your success. Once you get some babies born in your water you can start adjusting it if you want. You have a good place to start. Just make sure to ask the person you get the shrimp from what their GH. KH and PH is. 

[Bev C]

 yes best to get them local from someone that has the same water as youn,!n my closet store is 1-2 hours away but  they have the same kind of water as my town ,,  i usually have to let my water sit 24-48 hours before  i do a water change  on my shrimp or fish tank because of my water best wishes 

[Zesul]

Hey guys I need some help fast I finally got my cherry shrimp all my parameters were good no ammonia or nitrite so the only thing was my pH being really high at 8.4. I went to my local store to get them and I drip acclimated for over an hour before adding them in. I didn't see any signs of shock and they immediately started feeding on the algae I had in the tank so I thought everything is good. About and hour after adding them in some started swimming frantically in the tank and I just found one on its back twitching. I can only assume it's the drastically different pH. I'm not sure what to do now I'm heart broken that I can't do anything for them it's too late to take them back to the store as it's 45 minutes away and will close soon. Sorry I just need some advice and maybe a little encouragement this is really hard to watch not knowing how to help them and very discouraging as this is my first attempt at keeping them.

[Zesul]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:08 PM, Zesul said:

Hey guys I need some help fast I finally got my cherry shrimp all my parameters were good no ammonia or nitrite so the only thing was my pH being really high at 8.4. I went to my local store to get them and I drip acclimated for over an hour before adding them in. I didn't see any signs of shock and they immediately started feeding on the algae I had in the tank so I thought everything is good. About and hour after adding them in some started swimming frantically in the tank and I just found one on its back twitching. I can only assume it's the drastically different pH. I'm not sure what to do now I'm heart broken that I can't do anything for them it's too late to take them back to the store as it's 45 minutes away and will close soon. Sorry I just need some advice and maybe a little encouragement this is really hard to watch not knowing how to help them and very discouraging as this is my first attempt at keeping them.

The rest of them have died only took another 20 minutes the only thing left in the tank is the nerite snail and the one blue velvet that they gave me as an extra not sure if that one will be dead soon too. I already took all the bodies out of the tank so I don't get an ammonia spike. I probably should have drip acclimated for longer but when I asked at the store they said an hour would be good. I think I'm going to buy some RO water from the store and cut that with my tap water to try to lower my pH, but I don't know what else to do this has been a very sad experience.

[Patrick_G]

Do you know what the PH was in the store’s tank? There’s a good chance it’s similar, but if it’s dramatically lower then you can try cutting some of your water with distilled water to lower the PH. 
 

What are you other parameters? ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? 

You might also need to bypass your water softener. I think it strips out some minerals but add others. I bet someone with more experience will have more info on that. 

[Zesul]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:35 PM, Patrick_G said:

Do you know what the PH was in the store’s tank? There’s a good chance it’s similar, but if it’s dramatically lower then you can try cutting some of your water with distilled water to lower the PH. 
 

What are you other parameters? ammonia, nitrite, nitrate? 

They said their pH was about 7.2 so pretty big difference to my 8.4. My parameters are 0ppm ammonia, 0ppm nitrite, and 10ppm nitrate. They sell large jugs of RO water at the store so I'm thinking that my only shot at this point. Still very disappointing and I feel really bad about the shrimp. 

[Patrick_G]

So sorry about the shrimp! That is quite a big jump in PH considering it’s not a linear scale. I think you’re on the right track in getting some RO water from the store. 

[Zesul]

On 12/26/2022 at 8:48 PM, Patrick_G said:

So sorry about the shrimp! That is quite a big jump in PH considering it’s not a linear scale. I think you’re on the right track in getting some RO water from the store. 

Thanks I'm not quite sure what to do with the nerite snail and blue velvet shrimp that are still alive for now I think I'll just have to see if they are still alive by tomorrow was thinking of taking them back while I sort out how much RO water to add. Worried the nerite snail is going to climb out of the tank trying to get out of the water it doesn't like.

[Rube_Goldfish]

My understanding is that water softeners remove magnesium and calcium and replace it with either sodium or potassium, depending on whether you add sodium chloride or potassium chloride to your softener (NaCl is much cheaper). I don't use my softener's bypass valve, instead opting to remineralize with Seachem Equilibrium. The bypass would be free but I'm not using that much Equilibrium and it easier to use (I never know how much water I have to run with the bypass open before I'm not getting softened water anymore).

On 12/26/2022 at 8:59 PM, Zesul said:

Thanks I'm not quite sure what to do with the nerite snail and blue velvet shrimp that are still alive for now I think I'll just have to see if they are still alive by tomorrow was thinking of taking them back while I sort out how much RO water to add. Worried the nerite snail is going to climb out of the tank trying to get out of the water it doesn't like.

My experience is that snails like alkaline water anyway, so I wouldn't worry too much about the nerite.

[Cinnebuns]

The big thing with shrimp is matching the water they were raised in. That is why you will have much more success getting them from someone who breeds them rather than a store because you can ask them what water they were bred in. The water the store keeps them at does help only if they have been kept in that water for a period of time. If they, for example, just got new ones in, there is a chance that even the store's water parameters are not what the shrimp like and they would have died at the store as well. That said, I do think that drastic of a ph change likely is what caused the issue. You can try again with trying to match the store's ph but if even that doesn't work I would recommend seeking out a breeder that has more similar water to yours. Right now isn't the best time because of the weather, but once stuff warms up it should widen your ability to search for people who can ship. Heck, by that time my colony might be established enough and I have them in high GH  and high PH water lol. 

[Zesul]

I pulled what I thought were dead shrimp out of my tank cuz they were all on their backs not moving. I put them back in the plastic bin I acclimated them in and after a couple hours some on them started moving again. I'm not sure what to do with them now as it's 12:00 am here and all stores are closed. Should I try to acclimate them again but for way longer or just hope they survive the night and bring them back to the store in the morning. I took out the nerite and blue velvet cuz they also started to do badly not sure if they will make it.

[Rube_Goldfish]

Maybe put an airstone and a bit of plant trimming in the bin and hope for the best, at least overnight. It sounds like that water agrees with them more anyway, and there's really nothing else you can do tonight. Then talk to the store you got them from tomorrow. I'm sorry you're dealing with this; good luck.

[Zesul]

So four of the six shrimp I pulled out are still alive and the nerite snail is doing better I took out the bodies and the poop from the snail to keep the water good while I wait for the store to open. I'm going to get some RO water and do a 50:50 cut with my tap water to reduce the pH then drip acclimate for about 4-5 hours just to be safe and then put them in a bag to do a temp acclimate ( can you tell I'm paranoid yet ). I just want to do my best to keep these remaining guys alive any additional advice on what I should do is appreciated. 

[jwcarlson]

My shrimp are in pH 8.2-8.3, GH and KH are both in the 18-20 degree range.  

I've got absolute gobs of shrimp and can send you some if you'd like.  Not sure how they'd ship this time of year, but can probably figure something out.

[Zesul]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:40 AM, jwcarlson said:

My shrimp are in pH 8.2-8.3, GH and KH are both in the 18-20 degree range.  

I've got absolute gobs of shrimp and can send you some if you'd like.  Not sure how they'd ship this time of year, but can probably figure something out.

thank you so much I want to see if I can make it work with these guys first this has been a huge learning experience for me. I'll definitely keep that in mind though I really appreciate it. 

[Patrick_G]

I can so empathize with drip acclimating them and then temperature acclimating them too. Some folks have great luck with these critters but some of us struggle. Don’t give up, I’m sure you’ll figure it out! 

[Zesul]

Ok I have an update and unfortunately its not the best news. The shrimp did not handle a longer acclimation well after about 4 hours of drip I started to put them in a bag for temp acclimation and I saw that they started to go limp. So I decided to call it and go to the fish store I'm not sure if any were alive when I made it there but the employee started to acclimate them back to their water so I'm just hoping they live (I feel bad for putting them through so much). I had some suspicion so I picked up a copper test kit and when I got back my water test for about .25-.50 ppm copper so I'm assuming that is what killed them so quickly. I'm just taking a step back and reevaluating. This definitely blind sided I thought I had been so thorough with my research but I guess they are right experience is the best teacher. Going to take some time before coming back to the problem cuz I'm just feeling a little too discouraged right now. Thank you to everyone for the advice it really helped me problem shoot this.  

[jwcarlson]

Darn... Is there copper that high right out of your tap?