Ziss Egg Tumbler help!

[AllFishNoBrakes]

 Nice. I used Hikari First Bites and then BBS when they were big enough. A little goes a long way with the powders!

[nabokovfan87]

Definitely.  I am excited.  It's going to be an interesting week in the fish tank!

I swear the swordtails are in the tank watching the tumbler like it's a TV set and they want popcorn.  NO thank you!

[TheSwissAquarist]

On 11/14/2022 at 4:33 AM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

 Nice. I used Hikari First Bites and then BBS when they were big enough. A little goes a long way with the powders!

How do you know all this???😂 Which species have you bred?

[Adam Swarbrick]

@nabokovfan87 🎉🎉🎉 Congratulations 🎉🎉🎉  

I had a look at your video I can definitely see egg sacks beneath them. It’s more of a white ish blob underneath them rather than the typical orange/ yellow you would normally associate with egg yolk. 
Here’s an arrival about Cory fry development with a couple of pics. 
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Different-stages-in-the-development-of-Corydoras-aeneus-a-eleutherembryonic-phase-36_fig2_225505888

 You can kind of see it on these fry too but they are a little older so the egg sacs started to be used up. 

Next steps the breeder box, I set up mine with a bit of plant from the tank. Ideally moss off you have some and 1 or 2 snails. These two will (especially the snail) keep the box clean of uneaten food reducing ammonia spikes.

Personally I wait two days before moving them they are extremely fragile right now and they won’t eat until day 4 anyway so you’ll foul the water.

For feeding, you can use the repashi powders it’s plenty small enough for them to take at first. I like to put some into tank water then pipette out the cloudy water. As they have said above a little goes a long way just feed a bit then come back after a few mins if they are still hungry. Then if you can after a week start them on bbs and they will grow like rockets. 

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/13/2022 at 11:50 PM, Adam Swarbrick said:

I had a look at your video I can definitely see egg sacks beneath them. It’s more of a white ish blob underneath them rather than the typical orange/ yellow you would normally associate with egg yolk. 

agreed, it totally threw me off.  The fry I've raised are often probably a week or so old by the time I see them.  Grazing off substrate and mulm. Colony breeding.  These ones swim differently and I spent some time studying them so I have an idea of what to look at.

On 11/13/2022 at 11:50 PM, Adam Swarbrick said:

For feeding, you can use the repashi powders it’s plenty small enough for them to take at first. I like to put some into tank water then pipette out the cloudy water.

Awesome tip, I love this.  I definitely will use this method from now on.

[Adam Swarbrick]

I only “discovered” the trick because all I had was morning wood and I wanted to filter off the chunks.

What breeder box are you planning to use?

It works fine for me because the base of my breeder box is solid but I’ve never used a mesh one @AllFishNoBrakes do you have problems with food on the Ziss breeder boxes mesh?

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/14/2022 at 12:35 AM, Adam Swarbrick said:

What breeder box are you planning to use?

I have a hang on style one from marina / fluval.

So it might be oto fry or potentially it could be detritus worms or something, but I do see in addition to the corydoras fry some very small mite looking things. Thoughts?

[Adam Swarbrick]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:22 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I have a hang on style one from marina / fluval.

Not a problem then. But if it’s the air diver hang outside one I’m thinking you are talking about I do use a bit of filter floss on the outflow of mine to stop them escaping. The small grate is not small enough on its own.

On 11/14/2022 at 9:22 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I can see something right at the end that looks a bit like a water flea but it’s hard to tell for sure. They are unlikely to be harmful and will probably be food for the babies once they are a bit bigger.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

On 11/13/2022 at 10:48 PM, TheSwissAquarist said:

How do you know all this???😂 Which species have you bred?

Because I’ve bred some fish and they’re basically all the same. Hatch the eggs, feed appropriate sized foods for the size of the fry, and once they’re big enough for the next thing move em up. I’ve bred my Albinos several times. Waiting on my Julii’s and Pygymy’s to be mature enough and when I see eggs I’ll hatch those. Hikari first bites and then BBS works great for me for both Cory’s and Angel’s. 
 

 

On 11/14/2022 at 1:35 AM, Adam Swarbrick said:

do you have problems with food on the Ziss breeder boxes mesh?

I don’t have the Ziss breeder box. It’s literally just a mesh box with plastic edging that snaps together. Maybe a Lee’s? Idk the brand. I got them from PetCo for like $10. No issues with food, but do keep some Ramshorn/pest snails in the boxes, and the breeder boxes are suctioned in a 55 gallon tank, so no fears of fouling the water. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by AllFishNoBrakes

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/14/2022 at 5:22 AM, Adam Swarbrick said:

I can see something right at the end that looks a bit like a water flea but it’s hard to tell for sure. They are unlikely to be harmful and will probably be food for the babies once they are a bit bigger.

Always something crawling around in my tank.  EEEESH. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea 😂

I figured it would give me some time.  I counted a good amount of fry last night.  I haven't checked on things this morning, but I just hope it's not something that will bug the fish.  I was looking up other stuff last night (paramecium?) and it was just a single celled something that usually ends up as food.  I don't have any idea what it looks like.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:12 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Always something crawling around in my tank.  EEEESH. @Chick-In-Of-TheSea 😂

Oh no, what now?  😆

On 11/14/2022 at 1:12 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

paramecium

These are not visible to the naked eye; you can only see them w/ a microscope.  I fed these in biology class in high school for extra credit, and I documented my findings.  They looks like little ovals with an alcove (for lack of a better term) on the side, and they would vacuum up the food (yeast that I dyed red) that I fed them.  Slurp!!  The paramecium were found within a droplet of lake water though, which I put on a slide.  

I will tag @Guppysnail because she seems to have all sorts of miscellaneous knowledge about microfauna.  She helped me with my recent debacle this weekend.  That one is over in my mystery snail eggs & inverts journal, but the short version is I was inspecting every bit of detritus I vacuumed out of the tank, worried that I sucked up baby shrimp, and then I was returning, one by one, copepods and ostracods to the tank because I thought they were the little shrimps.  (I know. What a dum dum... I flopped on the couch and cried over it before learning the things were NOT little shrimp.  😅 )

[Guppysnail]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:21 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

will tag @Guppysnail because she seems to have all sorts of miscellaneous knowledge about microfauna. 

I don’t know a ton just what I’ve seen. 99% of what you can actually see is not harmful and serves a purpose. Mother Nature created a critter to keep each critter organism and detritus in balance. 
 

I recommend @modified lung journal to learn more about some micro fauna and how they survive and what purpose they serve as well as the nutritional value to your critters. 

 

On 11/14/2022 at 1:21 PM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

and then I was returning, one by one, copepods and ostracods to the tank because I thought they were the little shrimps.

I save and return all the microfauna I can to tanks. I don’t waste live nutrition my critters benefit from. Though I understand it’s frustrating when you are not familiar with or comfortable with microfauna. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Guppysnail

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/14/2022 at 10:46 AM, Guppysnail said:

I recommend @modified lung journal to learn more about some micro fauna and how they survive and what purpose they serve as well as the nutritional value to your critters. 

Oh I'm definitely subbed on that one!  I always check out all the awesome microscope gifs and learn so much from that journal!
 

On 11/14/2022 at 10:46 AM, Guppysnail said:

I don’t know a ton just what I’ve seen. 99% of what you can actually see is not harmful and serves a purpose. Mother Nature created a critter to keep each critter organism and detritus in balance. 

Are you or @modified lung familiar at all with anything that specifically hangs on eggs / fry?

Edited November 14, 2022 by nabokovfan87

[modified lung]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:27 PM, nabokovfan87 said:

Are you or @modified lung familiar at all with anything that specifically hangs on eggs / fry?

I know very little about diseases.

[nabokovfan87]

I realized, moving the fry... That it kind of helps to have at least 2 of these. You never know what size the spawn will be, and you don't want to overstuff one of these things.

Second, I really, really struggled to move the eggs.  I couldn't imagine picking through these inside the tumbler and having the confidence to do so without causing harm. The lid is pretty difficult to get off gently, which resulted in a big splash and the "oh crap" moment.

I don't know what the best method is to actually move the fry from the tumbler, especially just handling them in general. I moved them from the tumbler into a half full specimen container and let them swim out. Once I sorted the eggs and stuff with a pipette I went ahead and moved the fry to the breeder box.

This step is where I wish I had a net or some actual method to move fry. I really don't. And that's probably going to result in a few being lost or wounded.

As others mentioned, they are definitely delicate.

[AllFishNoBrakes]

@nabokovfan87 Indeed. I have some suggestions though:

-If you don’t already have one, a turkey baster can be a big help with moving fry. You can gently suck them up, cap the end with your finger, and then gently squeeze them into the container you will raise them in. Most of the time my Angel fry will basically just fall out of the bottom of the baster, so I uncap my finger below the water line inside the container and I just let them “fall” out into the container. 
-Fry are indeed delicate, but also don’t underestimate what they can take. I’m not advocating for you going crazy or intentionally causing harm, but think about what these guys survive in the wild. 
     -With my Angels, I hatch artificially using MB, which inevitably results in some wigglers getting attached with their little hooks to some fungused eggs. Once these eggs/wigglers fall off the leaf or the slate, I’ll use a turkey baster to suck them up and spit them back out in the hopes that the hook comes off the fungused egg and then I can remove the egg. This may seem brutal, but I haven’t watched a fry straight up die while doing this. 
-I’m not sure what your breeder box is in, but when I’ve taken fry from the tumbler into the breeder box I’ve (kind of quickly) poured them from the tumbler into the breeder box, and then quickly scooped up some tank water and poured it again into the breeder box. Repeat a couple of times to ensure there’s no fry that stuck to the tumbler instead of being poured into the breeder box. My breeder boxes are in a 55 gallon tank so I have enough space to do this gently but efficiently. Then, it’s much easier (in my opinion) to get the eggs, shells of eggs, whatever out of the breeder box with a pipette or turkey baster. 
 

Hope this helps!

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:02 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

-If you don’t already have one, a turkey baster can be a big help with moving fry. You can gently suck them up, cap the end with your finger, and then gently squeeze them into the container you will raise them in. Most of the time my Angel fry will basically just fall out of the bottom of the baster, so I uncap my finger below the water line inside the container and I just let them “fall” out into the container. 

I definitely have one and have used it for shrimp (amano).  I guess I didn't trust the one I have not to crush them at this point, but I felt they needed to be moved.  Very good point though.

On 11/14/2022 at 6:02 PM, AllFishNoBrakes said:

-I’m not sure what your breeder box is in, but when I’ve taken fry from the tumbler into the breeder box I’ve (kind of quickly) poured them from the tumbler into the breeder box, and then quickly scooped up some tank water and poured it again into the breeder box. Repeat a couple of times to ensure there’s no fry that stuck to the tumbler instead of being poured into the breeder box. My breeder boxes are in a 55 gallon tank so I have enough space to do this gently but efficiently. Then, it’s much easier (in my opinion) to get the eggs, shells of eggs, whatever out of the breeder box with a pipette or turkey baster. 

Totally did this 🙂

[AllFishNoBrakes]

@nabokovfan87Hope it all works out for you! Literally just pulled a spawn of Angelfish eggs. Gonna document over in my journal. Cheers to us all having fish babies!

[Adam Swarbrick]

On 11/15/2022 at 1:47 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

I realized, moving the fry... That it kind of helps to have at least 2 of these. You never know what size the spawn will be, and you don't want to overstuff one of these things.

Second, I really, really struggled to move the eggs.  I couldn't imagine picking through these inside the tumbler and having the confidence to do so without causing harm. The lid is pretty difficult to get off gently, which resulted in a big splash and the "oh crap" moment.

.

@nabokovfan87 This is exactly why I just started hatching the eggs in the hang on breeder box then I didn’t have to transfer them anywhere.

[Chick-In-Of-TheSea]

Baby snails are the size of sesame seeds, and I used a turkey baster to move those as well. 

P.S. Never use an irrigation syringe. The moving parts inside can have a fatal impact on a critter.

@nabokovfan87 are the eggs firm enough to separate from the clump or are they more jelly-like?

Edited November 15, 2022 by Chick-In-Of-TheSea

[nabokovfan87]

On 11/15/2022 at 2:35 AM, Chick-In-Of-TheSea said:

@nabokovfan87 are the eggs firm enough to separate from the clump or are they more jelly-like?

Very small, very hard, and immensely sticky. I definitely felt like I was using too much force or the corydoras are half super glue.

 

On 11/14/2022 at 11:42 PM, Adam Swarbrick said:

@nabokovfan87 This is exactly why I just started hatching the eggs in the hang on breeder box then I didn’t have to transfer them anywhere.

I can see the advantage. @Guppysnailas asking the same question about using a tumbler. I think for some species it makes sense! For corydoras it totally works, I have a good hatch, but just I need to have more and do a better job separating.

Dean had just mentioned on a video to Cory that he wants a 15G tank for the tumblers, I understand why now.