Reece Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) Hello, this is my first post here as I just found out about this forum last week while waiting for a sponge filter for my new tank. In the tank I now have white cloud minnows (8) and peacock gudgeons (3). I haven’t had many fish before, just two betas and some feeders for my turtle, but one of my betas bloated up and died the next day, so when I saw one of my gudgeons had some bloating compared to the other two, I became concerned. It’s very difficult to get a photo, especially because I just did a water change, but I hope these pictures show it is swelling specifically in the belly. My first search online lead me to a picture that looked very similar on another forum with a comment saying “it looks like she’s pregnant.” So I tried to figure out if the gudgeon with swelling was female, and it seemed like, from online references (black line on anal fin and less bulged forehead) she was. But then came the next problem: all three gudgeons have that black line. One has a more bulged head (shown here, hopefully, in a photo taken yesterday) but it could be angle. The one I’m concerned about is noticeably smaller as well, about 2/3rds the size maybe? But there’s no behavior that strikes me as irregular or concerning so far, just the belly. as for water parameters, I changed the water right before so the results may be a little inaccurate, but the gudgeons (as well as the white clouds) have only been in the tank for two days. Please forgive my estimates, it’s very hard for me to see different shades so reading test strips is a struggle. The ammonia I tested before the water change, the rest I tested after. ammonia <.5 nitrate ~10 nitrite <1 hardness 75-150 buffer ~40 ph 7.2-7.6 chlorine 0 If it does look like an illness, please let me know how I should go about treating it. Thank you! Edited August 28, 2022 by Reece Wanted to clarify there was no abnormal behavior so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 I think the best treatment would be to get the ammonia and nitrite as close to zero as you can. You really want both to be zero. How long has the tank been up for? It appears it may not have completed it's cycling. Daily water changes (remember to dechlorinate), along with an additional airstone/oxygen will help. I have had success with salt as well. But the main thing is to get the ammonia and nitrite to zero. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawjagrrl Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 I think it's likely a reaction to the elevated ammonia and nitrite levels, especially if these are after a water change. @quikv6 has excellent advice - really important to get those levels to zero. Some nitrAtes are ok, but I wouldn't go much over 20ppm. If you don't already have live plants, they are really helpful in maintaining water quality. Be sure to use a good dechlorinator for your tap water unless you happen to be using well or bottled water. Glad you found the forum - lots of great info here and the Co-op blog posts/articles too. I've gotten lots of great help here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friller Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) Eggs. My females get like that, male traps em in a cave, they do their thing, boom eggs. Male fans eggs, eggs hatch, eggs go into green water tank, more Peacocks. Edited August 29, 2022 by Friller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 29, 2022 Author Share Posted August 29, 2022 On 8/28/2022 at 10:36 PM, Friller said: Eggs. My females get like that, male traps em in a cave, they do their thing, boom eggs. Male fans eggs, eggs hatch, eggs go into green water tank, more Peacocks. Do any of your males have the black line on their anal fin, @Friller ? one seems to be performing what I would consider “wooing behavior” towards the gudgeons with the pudgy stomach, but it has that black line on its bottom fin. @quikv6 and @Jawjagrrl , I could see that. Any recommendations on how long to keep daily changes up? I put some ceramic cylinders from my turtle’s filter in the tank over a week ago. It has quite a few plants that had been in for about a week before I added the fish. Also, do you have any suggestions of when to put shrimp in? I really want to do some blue velvets when the tank is ready for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friller Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 (edited) Female peacock gudgeon, notice how the yellow stops before the fin. This is eggs. Males can also develop a yellow colour under the head, extending beyond the fin. Male peacock gudgeon, notice how the yellow continues under the chin, and the large boof head, similar to a nuchal hump Edited August 29, 2022 by Friller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 I'd continue with small water changes for as long as you have .5 ammonia and/or nitrite. Anything .5 or under, I would use Prime to "Detox" it, though this is subject to debate. Ultimately, as the good bacteria builds, you will stop seeing measurable ammonia and nitrite. I have had good luck boosting a tank by squeezing out used filter media from another tank directly into the newer filter/tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 30, 2022 Author Share Posted August 30, 2022 @Friller see, that’s where my confusion comes from, they all look much more like the female when comparing the two photos you added, and I thought I bought all of the gudgeons the store had so I don’t know how mine would have gotten pregnant. @quikv6okay! I will do that. Any guidelines as to what a small water change should be? It’s a 20 gallon tank. Thanks for all your help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friller Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 10:08 AM, Reece said: @Friller see, that’s where my confusion comes from, they all look much more like the female when comparing the two photos you added, and I thought I bought all of the gudgeons the store had so I don’t know how mine would have gotten pregnant. @quikv6okay! I will do that. Any guidelines as to what a small water change should be? It’s a 20 gallon tank. Thanks for all your help I agree yours all look like females. They don't need a male to develop eggs. The male only fertilises them, making them viable eggs able to hatch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quikv6 Posted August 30, 2022 Share Posted August 30, 2022 My recommendation would be anywhere from 25-50%, depending on what level the ammonia and/or nitrite is before the change. The higher it is, the more likely I would be to do 50%. If it's just at .25 or .5, I'd do 25%, and use Prime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted August 30, 2022 Author Share Posted August 30, 2022 Ohhhh right, that makes sense. @Friller thanks for your information and help. Do you happen to know what this is ? the tail of one just before the black dot is lightening up and from a distance it almost looks white. I thought it might be a “finally getting comfortable” color change, but it hasn’t happened to the others. @quikv6 okay perfect, that’s what I have been doing but I wasn’t sure if small meant like a gallon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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