Best way to transfers 20 gal to 30 gal and how to keep BB alive?

[Karen B.]

Greetings!

I am transferring my 20 gallons to a 30 gallons. I am keeping everything the same but will just need to add some substrate to fill the new space. I currently have Flourite black sand but will add stoney river black sand (will mix them together)

I suffer from chronic fatigue syndrome so I can’t do the whole transfer in a day. Plus, the manufacturer of the stoney river black sand recommend to wait 48 hours before adding new fish to let the filter pick up all the fine particles.

I would like to disassemble my current tank today (friday). I will put the old substrate in a bucket, give it one light rince with aquarium water then add more aquarium water and mix in the new substrate.

How long will my BB survive in the substrate if it’s immerge in aquarium water? Should I had an air stone if it’s going to be for less then 48 hours?

My plan is :

Day 1 (friday)

1 - remove plants from aquarium. Put them in a shallow bucket with aquarium water.

2 - Fill a 5 gallons bucket with aquarium water. Temporarily put fish in it (3 honey gourami, 15 chili rasboras and 6 cory)

3 - fill another 5 gallons bucket with aquarium water. Put HOB filter and sponge filter in it.

4 - Put substrate and some aquarium water in a 5 gallons bucket. Light rince. Pour some more aquarium water and mix in the new substrate.

5 - Save whatever is left of aquarium water in one last becket.

6 - Move 20 gallons in a temporary position

7 - Pour 5 gallons bucket with HOB filter and sponge filter in the 20 gallons.

8 - Pour the other 5 gallons buckets with the fish.

9 - Fill a little bit with dechlorinated water + some decor/plants so fish don’t get too stressed.

Question : My male honey gourami chase my females a lot. Is it ok to keep him in the ziss breeding box inside the tank for 48 hours (it has holes so the water flows)? I am just concerned about keeping him in such a confined space for 2 days. Of course I will put floating plants so he can hide in the roots, etc.

Day 2 (saturday)

1 - Put new aquarium in place

2 - wash it with salted water even if it’s new just to make sure it’s clean (it wasn’t in a box at the big pet store and was sitting in a shelves. With all the use of hand sanitizer I prefer to play it safe.). Rince with dechlorinated water.

3 - Add substrate, a new HOB filter but with some seeded media inside (half seeded media, half new) and the seeded sponge filter of the 20 gallons.

4 - Fill it slowly with part dirty aquarium water that was with the substrate, part clean aquarium water left in the bucket and some clean dechlorinated water.

5 - wait a couple of hours for everything to settle down then start scaping it.

48 hours later - add back fish with some of the water they were in in the 20 gallons.

What do you all think of this process? Am I missing an important step or should I do some things differently?

I will be testing my water perimeters like crazy. Feed lightly for a week. Maybe use fritz complete 7 in the new tank? 

[nabokovfan87]

Hey hey,

I am actually in the process of doing this literal thing in my own home.  I have to take the fish out of their temporary 10G and move then to either a 20L or 29G.  I've also done this in the past with 10-->20L and with a 55G-->75G.

I will try to break down my method while commenting on your own notes.  I apologize if I miss something, or if something isn't clear. There is definitely a lot of details to talk trough 🙂

The first question I have is simply when you say 30 do you mean 30G or 29G aquarium? Are you moving from a 20H to a 30G? What is the footprint difference?  I assume you have the correct amount of hardscape, rocks, and substrate for the new aquarium.  That's the only reason why I ask. And of course, once the fish and plants and whatever else are moved, you're always able to add more of whatever need be.
 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:32 PM, Karen B. said:

I suffer from chronic fatigue syndrome so I can’t do the whole transfer in a day. Plus, the manufacturer of the stoney river black sand recommend to wait 48 hours before adding new fish to let the filter pick up all the fine particles.

Totally understood so let's make this easy on you!  I would encourage you to rinse the substrate thoroughly. You definitely don't need to wait 48 hours before adding fish. The better you rinse it, the better the filter has a chance of clearing any small particles.  You can also add fine pad or filter floss to your HoB for the first 24-48 hours and this will dramatically help to remove those fine particles.

 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:32 PM, Karen B. said:

Day 2 (saturday)

1 - Put new aquarium in place

2 - wash it with salted water even if it’s new just to make sure it’s clean (it wasn’t in a box at the big pet store and was sitting in a shelves. With all the use of hand sanitizer I prefer to play it safe.). Rinse with dechlorinated water.

I would setup the new tank in its position before you touch the old tank in any way. This means, take the time up front to clean it, rinse, sanitize, anything you feel you need to do BEFORE you move anything or touch anything in your currently running tank.  Personally I would not use hand sanitizer on the tank itself. You are better off using a bleach dilution and then dechlorinator.  The sanitizer is going to be a mix of alcohol and aloe vera, but there may be some scented something that is in the formula that leaves a residue that may cause an issue.  Chlorine bleach or salt is going to be the typical method for sanitizing of the aquarium or equipment

On 4/21/2022 at 11:32 PM, Karen B. said:

How long will my BB survive in the substrate if it’s immerge in aquarium water? Should I had an air stone if it’s going to be for less then 48 hours?

I would not rely on anything from the substrate to be your new beneficial bacteria starter.  If there is bacteria in there it will help, but your main source is going to be any filtration you're running. That's the priority to keep the cycle as best you can.  This just means, keep your media and sponge wet with tank water and aeration at all time in this process. (easiest way to do this is to toss that in with your plants after you clean them off).
 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:32 PM, Karen B. said:

My plan is :

Day 1 (friday)

1 - remove plants from aquarium. Put them in a shallow bucket with aquarium water.

2 - Fill a 5 gallons bucket with aquarium water. Temporarily put fish in it (3 honey gourami, 15 chili rasboras and 6 cory)

3 - fill another 5 gallons bucket with aquarium water. Put HOB filter and sponge filter in it.

4 - Put substrate and some aquarium water in a 5 gallons bucket. Light rince. Pour some more aquarium water and mix in the new substrate.

5 - Save whatever is left of aquarium water in one last becket.

6 - Move 20 gallons in a temporary position

7 - Pour 5 gallons bucket with HOB filter and sponge filter in the 20 gallons.

8 - Pour the other 5 gallons buckets with the fish.

9 - Fill a little bit with dechlorinated water + some decor/plants so fish don’t get too stressed.

First things first is to move the fish somewhere. Be it, a tub or bucket with a sponge filter, airstone, whatever it is so that you can just work on removing the substrate and draining the old aquarium.  I also would suggest you don't feed the fish for 3-4 days before moving them to the new aquarium if they are going to sit into buckets for an extended period of time.

1. setup two buckets and drain CLEAN tank water (try not to siphon the ground or stir anything up, just drain off water into the buckets).
---->Bucket one, plants, rocks, and your cleaned filter media/sponge (may need 1 for hardscape, one for plants)
---->Bucket two, fish with aeration of some sort. (If you have feisty fish, you would setup multiple buckets for fish.  You can add dechlorinator here and some of the other products they have to absorb ammonia over time while the fish are in buckets/tubs. There is a product call poly filter that is used when shipping fish that you can use as well. (Poly Filter Aquarium Filter - Poly-Bio-Marine Inc)  You'll want to make sure you have a lid on the bucket as well as keeping it dark and in a place where it won't get bumped or near loud noises as best you can.

2. Get a small plastic container (12-16oz cup of some sort is what I usually use) to scoop the substrate into a bucket. This goes directly into the new aquarium that is setup and ready to go.  If you wish to rinse the old substrate at this point, this is when you would do it.  After any rinsing, go to the new aquarium and add a few inches of water (new water from the faucet, with dechlorinator).  The goal is to keep the old substrate wet.  Use the cup to slowly scoop it into the new tank. This will help prevent cracking the glass with the very heavy, wet substrate.  At this point you have the new tank with your old substrate and a few inches of water.  Get your newly emptied bucket, rinse off your new substrate and add that to the new aquarium.  You would either layer or mix the substrate in whatever way you wish at this point. 

Finally, fill the new tank at this point and let everything sit until day 2 if you need to.  You'll want to at least have an airstone moving the water in the tank.

You can at this point move onto step 2B or simply drain / rinse out the old aquarium.

2B. If you still have energy to do so, you can move any rocks or wood into the new aquarium as well as start the filter up.  This is sort of where you're "stuck" at an impasse of whether you prefer to preserve the cycle or have the filter with the fish in their holding container.  Whatever you have in buckets should have some some sort of aeration.  (fish, plants, rocks, etc.)  Wood is a bit difficult because it usually doesn't fit into the bucket, I'd recommend adding that to the new tank with the filter running as soon as you can.
 

On 4/21/2022 at 11:32 PM, Karen B. said:

3 - Add substrate, a new HOB filter but with some seeded media inside (half seeded media, half new) and the seeded sponge filter of the 20 gallons.

4 - Fill it slowly with part dirty aquarium water that was with the substrate, part clean aquarium water left in the bucket and some clean dechlorinated water.

5 - wait a couple of hours for everything to settle down then start scaping it.

48 hours later - add back fish with some of the water they were in in the 20 gallons.

Day 2, check on the fish and look for signs of stress

As mentioned above for day 1. Don't use "old water" because you're using that water in the buckets and anything left in the aquarium is going to end up being completely filled with much from stirring up the substrate.  In the new tank, just use new water, it's much easier and will give the fish better parameters in terms of ammonia and nitrite/nitrate.  The other parameters of your water should be identical, leaving only temperature as the main concern for any acclimation.

Add anything that isn't your fish back into the tank and let the tank run for 1-2 hours at that point. This clears up anything you need to for the fish in terms of the substrate cloudiness. You can run the tank at this point at any length of time until parameters are satisfactory for you.

Add your fish and monitor their behavior. There are things you can do to help.  Those being, running carbon for 1-2 weeks in your filter and adding beneficial bacteria from a bottle for 7 days (fritzzyme 7).  You shouldn't have to do anything, and as you mentioned, the key is going to be monitoring parameters the following 1-2 weeks.

 

Edited April 22, 2022 by nabokovfan87
typo

[Karen B.]

On 4/22/2022 at 4:26 AM, nabokovfan87 said:

Hey hey,

I am actually in the process of doing this literal thing in my own home.  I have to take the fish out of their temporary 10G and move then to either a 20L or 29G.  I've also done this in the past with 10-->20L and with a 55G-->75G.

I will try to break down my method while commenting on your own notes.  I apologize if I miss something, or if something isn't clear. There is definitely a lot of details to talk trough 🙂

The first question I have is simply when you say 30 do you mean 30G or 29G aquarium? Are you moving from a 20H to a 30G? What is the footprint difference?  I assume you have the correct amount of hardscape, rocks, and substrate for the new aquarium.  That's the only reason why I ask. And of course, once the fish and plants and whatever else are moved, you're always able to add more of whatever need be.
 

Totally understood so let's make this easy on you!  I would encourage you to rinse the substrate thoroughly. You definitely don't need to wait 48 hours before adding fish. The better you rinse it, the better the filter has a chance of clearing any small particles.  You can also add fine pad or filter floss to your HoB for the first 24-48 hours and this will dramatically help to remove those fine particles.

 

I would setup the new tank in its position before you touch the old tank in any way. This means, take the time up front to clean it, rinse, sanitize, anything you feel you need to do BEFORE you move anything or touch anything in your currently running tank.  Personally I would not use hand sanitizer on the tank itself. You are better off using a bleach dilution and then dechlorinator.  The sanitizer is going to be a mix of alcohol and aloe vera, but there may be some scented something that is in the formula that leaves a residue that may cause an issue.  Chlorine bleach or salt is going to be the typical method for sanitizing of the aquarium or equipment

I would not rely on anything from the substrate to be your new beneficial bacteria starter.  If there is bacteria in there it will help, but your main source is going to be any filtration you're running. That's the priority to keep the cycle as best you can.  This just means, keep your media and sponge wet with tank water and aeration at all time in this process. (easiest way to do this is to toss that in with your plants after you clean them off).
 

First things first is to move the fish somewhere. Be it, a tub or bucket with a sponge filter, airstone, whatever it is so that you can just work on removing the substrate and draining the old aquarium.  I also would suggest you don't feed the fish for 3-4 days before moving them to the new aquarium if they are going to sit into buckets for an extended period of time.

1. setup two buckets and drain CLEAN tank water (try not to siphon the ground or stir anything up, just drain off water into the buckets).
---->Bucket one, plants, rocks, and your cleaned filter media/sponge (may need 1 for hardscape, one for plants)
---->Bucket two, fish with aeration of some sort. (If you have feisty fish, you would setup multiple buckets for fish.  You can add dechlorinator here and some of the other products they have to absorb ammonia over time while the fish are in buckets/tubs. There is a product call poly filter that is used when shipping fish that you can use as well. (Poly Filter Aquarium Filter - Poly-Bio-Marine Inc)  You'll want to make sure you have a lid on the bucket as well as keeping it dark and in a place where it won't get bumped or near loud noises as best you can.

2. Get a small plastic container (12-16oz cup of some sort is what I usually use) to scoop the substrate into a bucket. This goes directly into the new aquarium that is setup and ready to go.  If you wish to rinse the old substrate at this point, this is when you would do it.  After any rinsing, go to the new aquarium and add a few inches of water (new water from the faucet, with dechlorinator).  The goal is to keep the old substrate wet.  Use the cup to slowly scoop it into the new tank. This will help prevent cracking the glass with the very heavy, wet substrate.  At this point you have the new tank with your old substrate and a few inches of water.  Get your newly emptied bucket, rinse off your new substrate and add that to the new aquarium.  You would either layer or mix the substrate in whatever way you wish at this point. 

Finally, fill the new tank at this point and let everything sit until day 2 if you need to.  You'll want to at least have an airstone moving the water in the tank.

You can at this point move onto step 2B or simply drain / rinse out the old aquarium.

2B. If you still have energy to do so, you can move any rocks or wood into the new aquarium as well as start the filter up.  This is sort of where you're "stuck" at an impasse of whether you prefer to preserve the cycle or have the filter with the fish in their holding container.  Whatever you have in buckets should have some some sort of aeration.  (fish, plants, rocks, etc.)  Wood is a bit difficult because it usually doesn't fit into the bucket, I'd recommend adding that to the new tank with the filter running as soon as you can.
 

Day 2, check on the fish and look for signs of stress

As mentioned above for day 1. Don't use "old water" because you're using that water in the buckets and anything left in the aquarium is going to end up being completely filled with much from stirring up the substrate.  In the new tank, just use new water, it's much easier and will give the fish better parameters in terms of ammonia and nitrite/nitrate.  The other parameters of your water should be identical, leaving only temperature as the main concern for any acclimation.

Add anything that isn't your fish back into the tank and let the tank run for 1-2 hours at that point. This clears up anything you need to for the fish in terms of the substrate cloudiness. You can run the tank at this point at any length of time until parameters are satisfactory for you.

Add your fish and monitor their behavior. There are things you can do to help.  Those being, running carbon for 1-2 weeks in your filter and adding beneficial bacteria from a bottle for 7 days (fritzzyme 7).  You shouldn't have to do anything, and as you mentioned, the key is going to be monitoring parameters the following 1-2 weeks.

 

Thank you so very much for your detailed answer and taking the time to break my post step by step like that, I truly appreciate it!

I did forget to mention I am upgrading from a 20 high to a 30 gallons (36 x 12 x 16). I have the new substrate already, it’s been rinced thoroughly about 2 weeks ago and is sitting in ziploc bags. I will rince it one more time because it’s not been aerated and been in the same stale water before mixing it with the old substrate.

I am sorry, I am french and I think I didn’t explain correctly - I dont want to use hand sanitizer to disinfect my tank. I will use salted water. I was just saying that even if the aquarium is new, people are using so much hand sanitizer that I wouldn’t feel safe not disinfecting it first. But I will go with salt - bleach scares me a bit.

One of my main problem is that my new tank is going where my 20 gallons currently is. And there is no way I can move it or push the stand without taking it all apart. And I didnt want to wait 48 hours but I wrote to the manufacturer of the new substrate I am mixing it to ask why I should wait (if it was a cycle thing or something) but they said no, the particles could harm the fish. Which is a bit weird - I mean, I rinced the thing like there was no tomorrow AND well… corydoras and other fish actually sift through substrate… particules don’t bother them… That’s really confusing from the manufacturer.

Otherwise, your advices and tips will be very usefull. Thank you again so very much. And good luck with your own upgrades!

Karen

[DaveO]

You might consider instead of mixing old and new substrate together, put the new substrate in the tank first and cover it with the old. That should keep the dusty particles contained.

[nabokovfan87]

On 4/22/2022 at 3:09 AM, Karen B. said:

One of my main problem is that my new tank is going where my 20 gallons currently is. And there is no way I can move it or push the stand without taking it all apart. And I didnt want to wait 48 hours but I wrote to the manufacturer of the new substrate I am mixing it to ask why I should wait (if it was a cycle thing or something) but they said no, the particles could harm the fish. Which is a bit weird - I mean, I rinced the thing like there was no tomorrow AND well… corydoras and other fish actually sift through substrate… particules don’t bother them… That’s really confusing from the manufacturer.

That makes perfect sense!

So yes, do everything as I mentioned, but you'll have to remove the old substrate, then move the old tank, and then put the new one in place.

I don't know why the manufacturer of the substrate is giving you cause for concern with particles.  I've added new substrate to tanks with fish in them, let alone it being corydoras.  As long as the substrate is rinsed, you can add it to the new tank and add fish without waiting. You run the filter for a few hours with floss before adding fish if you are at all concerned.

The only reason I can sense any concern would be that the manufacturer wants to give the tank time to sit and cycle, to remove any particles or oils that might be on the substrate. Thoroughly rinsing takes care of the second part and the first part is solved because you're specifically trying to preserve the cycle.

Edited April 23, 2022 by nabokovfan87