Hemorrhagic Septicemia

[Canuck AquaTropix]

I have two yellow labido males who have been suffering from Hemorrhagic Septicemia.  I have had these fish since they were fry and are now 3 inches .  They are currently isolated in a 20g with a separation.  They have blood red pectoral fin bases and redness on their noses as well.  So far I have tried keeping the water as pristine as possible.  I did one round of Hikari BiFuran Plus with zero improvment.  Then I tired one round of Kanaplex with zero improvement.  Then I tried feeding pellets soaked in Kanaplex for 10 days and zero improvement.  So now I am stumped.  The fish are behaving 100% normally and eat very well.  The redness has not spread to other parts of the body.  I feel bad euthanizing them because they are seemingly doing well.

Does anyone have any other suggestions for me to try?

Thanks!

[Irene]

Oh no, I'm sorry to hear that! Have you tried using another antibiotic? I noticed that BiFuran+ contains nitrofurazone and furazolidone, whereas Kanaplex contains kanamycin sulfate. You might consider using Mardel Maracyn, which contains an antibiotic called erythromycin that is purported to treat hemorrhagic septicemia (according to the box). If the fish seem to be doing well, you can also try using aquarium salt as a slower treatment that is good for bacterial infections. Here's the salt recipe I use for treating bacteria, fungus, and external parasites. 

[Canuck AquaTropix]

Thanks for the reply.  In Canada it is no longer legal to sell meds so its very hard to get Maracyn.  I basically used what I could get my hands on.  I am a big salt user for therapy BUT I don't think salt will work for Septicemia because its an internal bacterial infection.

[Irene]

After looking briefly online, it looks like most people recommend antibiotics as the best route. If there are no other fish antibiotics you can try, it might be worth giving salt a shot, but it can several weeks to see any improvement if it does work. I also saw that hemorrhagic septicemia may be caused by a particularly nasty virus, but it seems to be more prevalent in the fishing industry.

Sorry that I don't have any other suggestions. Maybe someone else who has treated hemorrhagic septicemia can give their input.

[Canuck AquaTropix]

1 hour ago, Irene said:

After looking briefly online, it looks like most people recommend antibiotics as the best route. If there are no other fish antibiotics you can try, it might be worth giving salt a shot, but it can several weeks to see any improvement if it does work. I also saw that hemorrhagic septicemia may be caused by a particularly nasty virus, but it seems to be more prevalent in the fishing industry.

Sorry that I don't have any other suggestions. Maybe someone else who has treated hemorrhagic septicemia can give their input.

The situation is quite bizarre actually.  They have been like this for probably two months now.  The disease does not get better but it does not get worse either.  The fish are acting 100% normal with a very ravenous appetite.  I just with I could get my hands on some erythromycin powder.

[Canuck AquaTropix]

Anyone else have any suggestions?

I added salt at a concentration of 4PPT and I haven't seen any improvement .

Edited October 20, 2020 by Mudkicker

[Jessica.]

I once had a discus develop Hemorrhagic Septicemia. It displayed it as red nostrils and some red in the pectoral fin connection (armpit area). I believe it developed because my nitrates were running a bit high for a month or so. Work was exceptionally busy for me and I got behind on water changes. 

The fish eventually got better with the only treatment being keeping water quality pristine, but it took 6 months. I got back on the ball and did 2-3 water changes per week, keeping nitrates low (10ppm). Over 6 months the fish slowly recovered, and today (about 1.5 yrs later), the fish is fully recovered.  The first month or more I saw almost no improvement, then it sloooooowly started getting better. 

Like your cichlids, this fish never displayed symptoms beside the red nose and "armpit" and continued to eat voraciously. He was actually the boss of the tank. I considered feeding meds and I was at the point that if the fish got any worse, I was going to put in into a hospital tank and dose antibiotics. I actually took photos every week so I could look back and see if it looked better or worse. 

Discus and yellow labs are certainly quite different, but I'd say don't give up on them.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by Jessica.

[dasaltemelosguy]

Hi, I have a similar issue but mine seems to be particularly virulent.

I had a 120G with 8 Red and Gold Severums and 12 Electric Blue Acaras. I've had these fishes in this tank since they were juveniles some two years ago. They share the tank with one large pleco. These severums today range from 4"-8" now.

PH8,0,0,5ppm-20ppm.

I've never had an incident with this tank. They always ate and bred like mad. Never shy and excited when approached.

Prior to the following, I have noticed all of their breeding behavior had stopped. But I gave it no mind. 

One day, one of the golds developed what appeared to be a septicemia sore on his side but it could have been an injury so I salted the tank at AQCOOP's Level 1 dosage. The following day he was covered in similar sores and died that day.

A second red severum formed a similar spot on his side and I began Kanaflex/Furan-2 in the tank but he died the next day.

A third gold severum then developed it on his mouth and died the day after that.

A 4th red was dead that same morning with no visible signs nor any visible distress previously. 

In 4 days half of this 2+ years established tank was wiped out and there were no new additions or changes, not even decor. Being severums, it has no live plants save some pothos for nitrate reduction growing out of the top. 

It's a highly filtered tank with an FX6 with 100% biomedia and a SunSun704b with carbon and Purigen and two UV filters. I've done 50% weekly WC's since it's inception. 

The last 4 severums are ironically the largest and prettiest of the group. They have no spots and eat and behave normally. 

I was wondering what you would try to prevent this from spreading to any others? Due to it's rapid fatality potential, might it be viral? 

At present, since these fishes are eating well, I'm doing a Kanaflex/Focus in food treatment for the full course but I'd very much welcome any advice to prevent this from spreading to any more of them. 

(BTW for some odd reason it seems to not have affected any of the Acaras). 

Thanks for your thoughts and ideas on this.