New Molly fish death in quarantine

[MarkM]

Purchased new fish on 1/15.  2 Sterbai, a quarter sized angel, and 5 Molly fish (2 creamsicle lyretail, 3 Dalmatian lyretail).  All put into fresh 10g quarantine tank with established sponge filter.  

Water parameters were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, Hardness somewhere up towards 300 (hard for me to distinguish the purples), Buffer between 80 and 120, PH around 7.6, no chlorine. Other than normal nitrate fluctuation parameters have remained stable over the past month.  

Morning 1, one of the creamsicle Molly was dead.  I can't see any blatant signs of disease.  Start Med trio for the group and add 3 tbsp salt.

Morning 2, one Dalmatian lyretail dead, all other fish seem lethargic.  Add second Airstone to increase oxygen in tank.  This seems to correct the issue.

No more issues over the 7 days, do a feeding, then 30% water change. Add 1 more tbps to replace salt that was removed. Continue in quarantine.

On 2/4 Another Dalmatian Molly is in distress.  Was swimming upside down, but no other outward signs I could see.  It was dead within the hour. No other signs of issues with remaining fish.  They were all swimming and acting normally.  

2/5 decide to do another week of med trio. 

2/10 everyone looks hunky-dory, begin light feeding (extreme krill flakes and nano) and test ammonia/nitrite/nitrate daily incase I fried my bacteria.  Nothing is out of whack.

2/13 this morning the last Dalamation Molly has a bent spine but is eating and swimming "normally".  Within an hour is now swimming in what I would call a tornado pattern with face towards bottom of tank.  

I prepped another quarantine tank to separate this Molly from the remaining fish in quarantine.  1 tbps of salt and 3 gallons of water. Got some pictures and looks like potentially popeye setting in?

It's about 3 hours later and he is floating belly up, not dead yet just upside down.   Would be shocked if he lives through the night.

The last creamsickle molly is now seeming bent back as well blotchy spots on top of his head. (not just an awkward position, but best picture I could get).  

 

Any thoughts for last ditch efforts?  They've both been thru med trio twice now over the course of a month. The Angel and Sterbai Cory have shown no signs of distress or weird behavior throughout. If I'm missing something let me know. 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by mpm42
Double Picture

[Colu]

Mollies like a kH of 180-450ppm it could be lack of minerals causing the bent spine's I can't rule out a bacterial infection  what I would do is add some crushed coral to increase your kH and do a course of kanaplex in food feeding a small amount twice daily for 7 days

[MarkM]

Thanks @Colu for the advice as always.  Would you suggest keeping the molly fish separated for the medicated food or would you treat the Angel and Sterbai as well?

The Dalmatian Molly fish is looking much better today after being moved into his own tank.  Measuring KH in both tanks dropped more towards 40 than the 80-120 I am used to seeing.  Going to add crushed coral to bring it up.  

Edited February 14, 2022 by mpm42

[Colu]

I would Qarantine the mollies treat them separately if your other fish aren't showing any symptoms

Edited February 14, 2022 by Colu

[MarkM]

The Molly fish seem well on their way to recovery.  

 

Spines less bent and none of the erratic swimming patterns (100% less floating upside down). So thank you again Colu.  

There's one thing that has me scratching my head and thinking that it was the medicine that caused the improvement.  The crushed coral I added did not appear to have a measurable impact on water parameters.  First time using crushed coral, so not sure how quickly I should see a rise, but from what I've read it's slow.  After a week 3 tanks all read the same on KH, but one was a 29g with no coral, one was 5 gallon with 1.5 lbs in bag, and one was a 65 gallon with 2 lbs in the canister filter and another 3 lbs on the substrate. Just looking at the strips I'd be hard pressed to tell them apart.  They're allll reading between 40-80kh on the coop test strips (more towards 40).

[Colu]

It all depends on how many water changes your doing if your doing large water change the crushed coral can't desolve quickly enough to keep up  so it will read close to what your tap water kH is

[MarkM]

Yea, that make sense that large water changes would change chemistry back to baseline tap water.  These tanks all take 2-3 weeks for nitrates to creep up to require water changes and then get ~30%.  

In this case, there was no water change between adding the coral and testing.  It was 7 days with no water changes.  I am checking strips daily as I try to sort this out and there has been no fluctuation at all.  I'm just not sure at how quickly one should see a rise? If it takes more than 2-3 weeks to have a noticeable difference I'll be fighting a losing battle. I'd hate to start having to chase numbers with chemicals. 

It was slim pickings locally so I had to go with crushed coral from a big box store "top" brand and am wondering if I would be seeing better results from a different brand. 

I checked if there was any noticeable difference from tap and it looks like there might be a SLIGHT increase in kh/ph from tap.  (tap on right and I'm still wondering what changed with the KH from tap water.  It was always between 80-120...).  For now I'll keep monitoring until the next water change

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@mpm42coral sea is just fine for crushed coral (CC), it is what I use, a relative bargain compared to sellers who put it out by the pound. I get mine from big box stores, I get other stuff from my LFS unless there's a sale. 

If you want to speed things up put some CC in the filter as well as the tank. It has a good surface area for bacteria and it takes quite awhile unless you pH is <7 to breakdown completely. 

In terms of molly care your pH at >7.5 is excellent. Although CC has carbonate it also has other minerality that is helpful as well. 

I love instant ocean, I usually only put in a tablespoon in my breeding setups but that will also give you some extra minerals and your TDS will go up a bit (looks like it is already >300) and that should help. 

Glad your mollies are on the mend. Sorry you ran into trouble. 

[MarkM]

@Beardedbillygoat1975 thanks for the vote of confidence in the big box stuff.  Having never purchased it before wasn't sure if there was a huge difference. 

I'm not as concerned with speeding it up as I am trying to set my expectations appropriately.  Tho I say that having already added CC to the canister filter on two of my tanks. 

I've had Molly fish in one of tanks for ~7 years now and none of them have shown these issues with curved spines.  But then again the KH was never this low before.   Hoping the mollies continue recovering and KH comes up slowly over the next few weeks, if not I'll try other measures. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Hopefully you’ve caught it early. We just never know where they’re coming from so it’s hard and then there’s the tap water and all the other variables. Hang in there!