Undergravel filter system with sponge filter

[Teri]

I'm just getting back into aquariums and had an undergravel system before and bought a new lee. I can't get the tank ready for fish. I have killed 4 already. I just purchased the sponge filter from the co-op. Do I need both or should I take out the undergravel and just use sponges. 20 gallon tank. No fish yet because the tank killed then all. Thanks 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Teri
Miss spelling

[Patrick_G]

Hi @Teri, welcome to the forum! Sorry you’re having trouble keeping fish alive. There’s nothing wrong with an undergravel filter. You could use it alone or alongside the sponge or just use the sponge by itself. The important thing is to make sure you cycle the tank first. You need a colony of beneficial bacteria to process the toxins in fish waste into a less harmful form otherwise the waste will build up and harm the fish. 

 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

@Patrick_Gis right on this. You will need to cycle your tank. These videos are great.

You need a testing kit of some sort for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as this is how you are going to figure out you are cycled. Coop test strips are great, many get the API master kit which has a lot more then just the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate and actually the coop strips - you'd have both the ammonia and the comprehensive ones. API you really have to watch the directions and follow them to the T. On this forum when someone has a problem we will almost universally ask for these numbers. When I started in the hobby I would just take my water to my local fish store (LFS). Now there are reliable kits/tools to do it yourself.

I would keep the UGF and the coop filter. Both are totally legit ways to filter a tank. I just bought two 40-55g Lee's kits so they work. It's always nice to have a cycled sponge filter so if a fish gets sick you can throw it in a hospital tank or a plastic tote. That way you would always have good 

You will want to start adding a source of ammonia - this can be straight ammonia you can buy (Dr. Tim's is a brand you can buy on amazon) making sure there is nothing else in it, or can be "ghost feeding," putting a pinch of a fish flake in every day until you get an ammonia reading and then watching the readings on your test kit. There are commercially available beneficial bacterias you can buy, the only ones I would buy is Fritz's either Fritzyme 7 or Turbo Start. Fish in cycles which is what you did the first time and lost your fish is frowned upon because it puts a tremendous stress on the fish and often in some pet stores especially the big box ones the fish were already stressed and not that healthy coming from a farm so they crump super easy., 

I believe plants can help cycle a tank - get some really basic easy to grow plants even those in the tubes at big box store can work - amazon swords and valisineria plant it in the substrate so just the crown the bit where the leaves and roots meet is peeking out, and or anubias, java fern use gel super glue and put the rhizome on the wood or rock. Betta bulbs are great choices as well. Usually grow like weeds. 

As you are cycling the tank you will start to see algae. It is not bad it is actually good. Things are growing in your tank which is good. They are part of the biome of the tank. When you see diatom brown algae you know you are getting close, when you see green algaes you are really close and if you see new plant growth leaves growing upward then you're probably there, 

 

[Teri]

Thank you I do have the master test kit I've been using. Also my fish store gave me a sponge from one if there tanks but I still can't get it to cycle. I've been putting in fish food. I'm at my wits end. I has to move all the fish to my 3 gallon tank so I didn't lose them all. So far 4 dead out if 11. Might have another one headed out as well. I'm so stressed. I've also been using prime. 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Teri

[Patrick_G]

On 2/11/2022 at 1:32 PM, Teri said:

Thank you I do have the master test kit I've been using. Also my fish store gave me a sponge from one if there tanks but I still can't get it to cycle. I've been putting in fish food. I'm at my wits end. I has to move all the fish to my 3 gallon tank so I didn't lose them all. So far 4 dead out if 11. Might have another one headed out as well. I'm so stressed. I've also been using prime. 

 

If you have a seeded sponge filter from your LFS that you put in as soon as you brought it home you should already be cycled. What are your current Levels of Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate? 

[Teri]

These are the levels I have as of today. This us the last 3 days

 

[Patrick_G]

It looks like you were processing ammonia on 2/9 but something happened on 2/10. You should probably try and introduce some source of ammonia like @Beardedbillygoat1975 mentioned in his post. Hopefully some of the good bacteria from the seeded sponge is still alive and will multiply quickly. It’ll take some time but follow the steps in the aquarium co-op video and it should work. 

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

I wonder if you’re not shaking the nitrate solution vigorously enough and getting a false negative because you should be cycled. 
 

As @Patrick_Gindicated put a big pinch of flake in and then wait 2 hours or so. Test then repeat the next morning. I’d be curious what your readings are. Post them here and we’ll see what we have going on. 

[Teri]

Here us today's readings

2/12
HR ph.   8.2
Ammonia  .25
No2. 0
No3. 0