Notice: Levamisole Treatment is NOT totally snail-safe.

[Entorwellian]

On 1/19/2022 at 1:04 PM, laritheloud said:

Gosh, this is tough and I faced the same conundrum. In all likelihood I don't think your mystery snail will survive the treatment. Most of my larger 'fancy' snails passed away during the treatment process. Only one of my rabbit snails (the smallest adult) and all of my baby rabbit snails, along with my nerites, survived. Mystery snails and their relatives don't appear to be built to withstand levamisole treatment.

There doesn't appear to be a consensus that mystery snails can act as a host for camallanus. I don't know how much risk there is in keeping them separate for up to 2 months and then moving them back, because I can't find controlled experiments that prove whether or not mysteries carry and transmit this parasite. I wish I could help you more, but I think it's up to you to decide how to proceed. 😞 Knowing what I do now, I'd probably move them out of the tank for treatment.

Thank you very much for your advice. Sorry about what happened to your snails 😞

I'll move him into the rescue tank. If the worms come back a few months later, he will get dosed with the rest of them.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I wish I had seen this about 7 days ago.  🙄  I can confirm that rabbit snails do not do well with Levamisole.  I have them in a recovery tank, but they had not moved in 5 days.  Neither have my pagoda snails.  They are all alive based on the fact they close their operculums when disturbed, weight, and that they don't smell dead (yes, they all get a sniff test).  The recovery situation is not ideal, as I was not really prepared for this.  But I had to treat the fish. 

Interestingly, my colony of Colombian ramshorns has not skipped a beat.  They are as active and voracious as ever!  Wonder why the difference? 

Now I know.  Pull rabbit/pagoda snails when treating with Levamisole.  Wish I had known it before, but we press on.

[laritheloud]

On 1/20/2022 at 2:57 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I wish I had seen this about 7 days ago.  🙄  I can confirm that rabbit snails do not do well with Levamisole.  I have them in a recovery tank, but they had not moved in 5 days.  Neither have my pagoda snails.  They are all alive based on the fact they close their operculums when disturbed, weight, and that they don't smell dead (yes, they all get a sniff test).  The recovery situation is not ideal, as I was not really prepared for this.  But I had to treat the fish. 

Interestingly, my colony of Colombian ramshorns has not skipped a beat.  They are as active and voracious as ever!  Wonder why the difference? 

Now I know.  Pull rabbit/pagoda snails when treating with Levamisole.  Wish I had known it before, but we press on.

I'm so sorry!!! ONE of my adult rabbits did survive the treatment, so hope isn't completely lost -- but my stats were really rough. They might not move again, or they might suddenly rejuvenate and go back to it in about a week. 

[Entorwellian]

Just a heads up after forum surfing and asking an expert at the department of zoology at a university: snails can't get the camellanus worms because they are mollusks that have an open circulatory system which is not like a vertebrate and the worms are parasitic blood suckers, which means that they are likely too specialized to infect a drastically different species (he also said this purely theoretical as there haven't been any scientific experiments with camellanus worms vs. snails), but they can be an intermediate host with the hatchings living on the surfaces of the snail for up to 3 weeks. I'm guessing that my 2 gallon rescue tank is now also compromised as a result. In addition, the levamisole can last in the aquarium for quite a while and I have to do a second treatment in 2.5 weeks. I'm going to keep the snail in the rescue tank for a month at least so the hatchlings die off naturally, and possibly longer if I have to do a third treatment.

[laritheloud]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:39 AM, Entorwellian said:

Just a heads up after forum surfing and asking an expert at the department of zoology at a university: snails can't get the camellanus worms because they are mollusks that have an open circulatory system which is not like a vertebrate and the worms are parasitic blood suckers, which means that they are likely too specialized to infect a drastically different species (he also said this purely theoretical as there haven't been any scientific experiments with camellanus worms vs. snails), but they can be an intermediate host with the hatchings living on the surfaces of the snail for up to 3 weeks. I'm guessing that my 2 gallon rescue tank is now also compromised as a result. In addition, the levamisole can last in the aquarium for quite a while and I have to do a second treatment in 2.5 weeks. I'm going to keep the snail in the rescue tank for a month at least so the hatchlings die off naturally, and possibly longer if I have to do a third treatment.

Thank you so much for this information. I hope this helps folks with snails in their tanks in the future, so they can be kept separate from all fish inhabitants for an appropriate period of time.

[OnlyGenusCaps]

On 1/24/2022 at 8:39 AM, Entorwellian said:

but they can be an intermediate host

I'm not surprised by this.  Snails are quite effective secondary hosts for all sorts of parasites.  Including those with human disease implications, of course.  Makes me think twice about the standard that quarantining snails is unnecessary.  🤔

[Entorwellian]

Just want to give an update on treating my tank: One thing that I haven't seen anywhere except on a Canadian storefront is that you want your temperature to be low when putting Levamisole in your aquarium, 75F or less, because the dissolved oxygen is reduced significantly when treating the tank. Apparently discus fish are the most sensitive to this, but also the snails as well. So you should turn your temp way down and put an air stone in there to help out the fish.

I did 5 grams dissolved in 100 ml of water and used 1 ml per gallon (so 15 gallons altogether.) Had the light off for a day, then cleaned the tank after 48 hours. I had the blue mystery snail in the tank and he survived the treatment just fine, but he was a bit stressed out and had his siphon out for a short while after 8 hours of dosing the tank but was fine on day 2.

Right now the tank looks very healthy and I counted four worms on the ground that I vacuumed up. All the fish are perky and there are no more redworms hiding around the anuses.

[laritheloud]

So sad to say, my pseudomugil issues haven't really resolved. I quit medicating the tank in December, and they're dropping off slowly, one by one. One male started spiraling out of nowhere and died. I am now observing a female that went from plump and well-fed to wasting and weak in the course of three days. It's very, very strange.

Should I remove the obviously dying fish as they show symptoms? I'm not quite sure how to handle this. 

Also, I don't know what this symptoms means, but there is one rainbowfish (a male, the most vigorous of them all, actually) who has this 'patch' near the caudal fin that looks like an internal ... mass? or growth. It's been there for as long as I've had him. I initially thought it was a lesion or a sign of infection, but as it's never changed throughout my tank treatments and he actually acts healthiest of all the males, I guess it's just a growth. You can see it on both sides in the video and in the screencap here.

Thoughts, @Colu? Just old and sensitive pseudomugils?

EDIT: Seriously Fish tells me that these guys get less fecund after 12 to 18 months and don't really live past a breeding season in nature. They "can" live longer in aquaria but ... I suspect this is just their lifespan. When I obtained them they were adults and haven't grown larger.

https://streamable.com/9vkifk

Edited February 22, 2022 by laritheloud

[Colu]

It's possible they still have internal parasites as some types of parasites  are becoming more resistant to medications you might have to use medication with a different active ingredient like fish aids fenbendazole the rainbow with the white patch as he had it for a long time if it were something like Columnaris it would have kill him by now if he's eating and not showing any odd behaviour I wouldn't treat him  forgot to add definitely not snail safe

Edited February 22, 2022 by Colu

[laritheloud]

I'm not sure if it makes sense to medicate more after 6 months of having these fish and medicating so much. I can get another dewormer just in case, but the symptoms (swift wasting, stringy poop, weakness) could be signs of a lot of different diseases, all of which I've treated for with gram-positive AND gram-negative antibiotics, metronidazole in food, levamisole in the water, praziquantel... I did attempt to autopsy one, but I don't have a microscope. I didn't see any obvious worms.

Just a question of what to do with struggling fish at this point. I'd considered that it could be viral and even fish TB, but I've had my hands in the tank constantly (and I'm ashamed to admit I've had my hands in the tank with scratches on those hands; I'll be more mindful about that in the future) and haven't caught anything. 

I'm just weary of worrying about them. It'll be a long time before I try another rainbowfish species again.

[Colu]

You have a couple of options treat them again or just let nature take its course as these fish have had constant problems I would essential keep them Qarantined  don't use any nets or equipment from this tank in any other tank unless it thoroughly disinfected with  fish TB you can get wasting you also get loss of scales and skin ulcers bloating and other secondary infection symptoms your fish have  similar symptoms to wasting disease that doesn't mean something else isn't going on it difficult to no for sure all you can do is treat based on the symptoms your seeing

Edited February 22, 2022 by Colu

[laritheloud]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:28 PM, Colu said:

You have a couple of options treat them again or just let nature take its course as these fish have had constant problems I would essential keep them Qarantined  don't use any nets or equipment from this tank in any other tank unless it thoroughly disinfected with  fish TB you can get wasting you also get loss of scales and skin ulcers bloating and other secondary infection symptoms your fish have are similar to wasting disease that doesn't mean something else isn't going on it difficult to no for sure all you can do is treat based on the symptoms your seeing

I haven't seen the ulcers or loss of scales. The fish otherwise look unscathed after they passed. The last death actually didn't waste at all, just spun down and died.

I do not share any equipment between my tanks. Call me paranoid, but all 5 of my tanks has a separate siphon, separate bucket, separate nets, separate cleaning implements. If I have to use a net in another tank I dry completely, disinfect in a methylene blue-based net soak, and dry again.

[Colu]

Their always a possibility that your fish multiple things going on its not uncommon for fish to parasitic and bacterial infections at the same time it difficult to no for sure  

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I am so, so sorry this is happening to you and your fish, @laritheloud.  This thread helped my fish and saved my snails.  So I am deeply appreciative that you were willing to post about your challenges here.  Thank you, and I hope everything comes out as well as it can. 

[laritheloud]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:37 PM, OnlyGenusCaps said:

I am so, so sorry this is happening to you and your fish, @laritheloud.  This thread helped my fish and saved my snails.  So I am deeply appreciative that you were willing to post about your challenges here.  Thank you, and I hope everything comes out as well as it can. 

Thank you. All I want is my thicklipped gouramis and my synodontis lucipinnis to stay healthy. None of them have ever fallen ill or shown the slightest sign that anything is wrong; it's just the rainbows, which were the first in the tank. Didn't even add the thicklips until two full months had passed of isolation, and they'd already been through a round of parasite and a round of antibiotic treatments (kanaplex in food). 

What would you do in this case? I kinda wonder sometimes if I'm just too hypervigilant and should just let them go as they go. My husband seems to think it's not catching, whatever it is, because none of our other fish in this tank have ever been sick.

[Colu]

On 2/22/2022 at 1:40 AM, laritheloud said:

What would you do in this case? I kinda wonder sometimes if I'm just too hypervigilant and should just let them go as they go. My husband seems to think it's not catching, whatever it is, because none of our other fish in this tank have ever been sick

I would just let them live out the rest of their live in the tank their in treating again is a personal choice if you just let nature take its course  as long as they aren't suffer I would just try and enjoy them

Edited February 22, 2022 by Colu

[laritheloud]

On 2/21/2022 at 8:48 PM, Colu said:

I would just let them live out the rest of their live in the tank there in treating again is a personal choice if you just let nature take its course  as long as they aren't suffer I would just try and enjoy them

Thank you Colu. I'm in this weird position where I'm reaching a point in my fishkeeping that some of my shorter-lived fish are just going to start dropping off. I'm still new to this hobby, no matter how much I read, research, and listen, and actually living through something of a mystery like this is puzzling. I get a little envious of people who lose track of how many fish they have in their tanks, enjoy them for what they are, and if some go, some go. I want to be like that! 🤪 If only I could RELAX!

[nurseshelly]

Thank you very much for posting this, I have the first ever camallanus worm outbreak I have experienced and I have rabbit snails.  There really isn't any information on rabbit snails and how they react to levamisole other than your post.  I will move them to a different tank.  Thank you again!