Aquarium of Death

[KaitieG]

I set up a 5 gallon dirted tank about a year and a half ago.  Plants look good, tank looks good.  Put in a pair of adult Garneri Killis who did well for about 15 months.  Then the male died (stopped eating and became lethargic.  Treated with general cure and levamasol with no improvement) and the female managed to jump out of the tiny hole (thought I had the lid all sealed well since I knew jumping could be an issue) about 3 weeks later. 

So, I had it sitting empty for about 3 weeks and then added a trio of guppies.  The angelfish are taking care of all the fry in my main tank, so I figured I'd raise a few replacements.  The first female died about 1 week in.  Then the 2nd one died about 2 weeks after that (she had clamped fins for a day and I moved her to a different tank away from the male since he seemed to be constantly harrassing her, and she died the next day).  Finally, the male died today about 3 weeks after that last female.  He just started to get wobbly and lethargic yesterday, I treated with levamasol and he died this morning.  

I can't see any visible issues with the fish--no fungus/bacterial infections, ich, etc.  Parameters all seem in check: 0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, 25 ppm Nitrate, Ph 8, Kh and Gh 300.  I know the water is super hard (it's a little harder in this tank than in my others, but not much), and I don't do a ton of water changes (about once/month)  on this tank, so I'm kind of wondering if it could have just gotten too hard from evaporation?  Or do I have an invisible parasite/disease issue?  

I really like the looks of the tank, and I'd like to try it with a betta eventually, but I seem to be on a death roll with this tank, and I'm not sure if it's a tank issue or a coincidence issue.  What's my next step towards making sure it's habitable?

[Brandy]

Those parameters sound reasonable...you say it is "a little harder", how much and why? If it is just lack of water changes, I would do several to see if it comes down. If not, I would wonder what ELSE might be in the tank contributing. Hardness tells you there are mineral particulates in the water, but not what kind they are. Maybe post a pic of the tank, or carefully consider any unusual decor...

We only know about what we test for. When I moved, I suddenly lost a BUNCH of shrimp in just one tank. They just bailed out of the tank, or died. Turns out the new house has all copper pipes, and that tank was the first I moved, so I used prime in the water instead of my filter, which was not set up yet (shrimp are especially sensitive to copper). My tests all looked great of course, and I was fairly confused for a little bit.

[JettsPapa]

There may not be anything wrong with your water.  I don't know where you got the guppies, but I've never had chain store guppies last longer than a month. 

[KaitieG]

On 11/4/2021 at 2:36 PM, JettsPapa said:

There may not be anything wrong with your water.  I don't know where you got the guppies, but I've never had chain store guppies last longer than a month. 

The two females were Twin City Guppies and the male was from my giant guppy tank. 

On 11/4/2021 at 1:32 PM, Brandy said:

Those parameters sound reasonable...you say it is "a little harder", how much and why? If it is just lack of water changes, I would do several to see if it comes down. If not, I would wonder what ELSE might be in the tank contributing. Hardness tells you there are mineral particulates in the water, but not what kind they are. Maybe post a pic of the tank, or carefully consider any unusual decor...

We only know about what we test for. When I moved, I suddenly lost a BUNCH of shrimp in just one tank. They just bailed out of the tank, or died. Turns out the new house has all copper pipes, and that tank was the first I moved, so I used prime in the water instead of my filter, which was not set up yet (shrimp are especially sensitive to copper). My tests all looked great of course, and I was fairly confused for a little bit.

All of my water is super hard--comes out of the tap at about 200-250 Kh and 300-325 Gh.  This appears to be closer to 300 Kh and 350 Gh.  My guess is that it's evaporation that's caused the difference.  No strange decorations--one coconut bridge and plants with natural aquarium gravel.  It is my only dirted tank though, so maybe that has something to do with it too?

[Brandy]

On 11/4/2021 at 12:49 PM, KaitieG said:

It is my only dirted tank though, so maybe that has something to do with it too?

It could...where is the dirt from? 

[KaitieG]

On 11/4/2021 at 3:00 PM, Brandy said:

It could...where is the dirt from? 

Dirt is from my yard (we don't use any lawn chemicals) and sterilized in the oven.  It's been in there over a year at this point.

[Chad]

I lost three of four guppies from Twin City Guppies in a similar manner (pair of Galaxy Blues and Golds). They have great fish but these things seem to happen to guppies now and again. I'm not ruling out the possibility it was my fault, my tank wasn't seasoned that well. I'm sorry for your troubles and can't offer any solutions. Only to say you're not alone in this regard.

[KaitieG]

I'm thinking I'll do several water changes over the next few weeks and let it sit for about a month with nothing in there (except the snails) and then give something else a try.  Sound reasonable?

 

[Brandy]

Yeah, that would be reasonable, but it could just be bad luck. Everyone loses fish sometimes. In fact I got some guppies AND platies locally, 3 times, and lost them each to the same illness, but one of each finally had fry before they died and THOSE fry are bullet proof. Thus "proving" that it is my water, but not because my water is toxic, just that it is different.

In my case it is very soft and acidic. I suspect the local breeder supplemented their livebearer water with minerals more than I did, and that was the problem. I now test the water the bag has, and sort of adjust mine to match initially, before gradually shifting it back across a few months. In that way I have ordered fish from Texas (land of liquid rock), and not lost any.

[KaitieG]

On 11/4/2021 at 4:04 PM, Brandy said:

Yeah, that would be reasonable, but it could just be bad luck. Everyone loses fish sometimes. In fact I got some guppies AND platies locally, 3 times, and lost them each to the same illness, but one of each finally had fry before they died and THOSE fry are bullet proof. Thus "proving" that it is my water, but not because my water is toxic, just that it is different.

In my case it is very soft and acidic. I suspect the local breeder supplemented their livebearer water with minerals more than I did, and that was the problem. I now test the water the bag has, and sort of adjust mine to match initially, before gradually shifting it back across a few months. In that way I have ordered fish from Texas (land of liquid rock), and not lost any.

My original guppies came from Twin City and they weren't particularly long-lived (3 months-ish for 3/5, then the other two lived over a year) but the fry are super hardy--I've heard that the generations can adapt that way to water conditions.  I was just surprised to see so many in a row struggle and die--including the guy from my other tank!

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

You really don’t know how old the adults are when you get them. This leads to if you’re lucky the females have a brood before they die and the males that are just as fragile may or may not make it to mate with the kids. Your brought up a good point that usually that brood is super hardy and subsequent generations will be in good shape too as they’re used to your water. 

[KaitieG]

On 11/4/2021 at 10:24 PM, Beardedbillygoat1975 said:

You really don’t know how old the adults are when you get them. This leads to if you’re lucky the females have a brood before they die and the males that are just as fragile may or may not make it to mate with the kids. Your brought up a good point that usually that brood is super hardy and subsequent generations will be in good shape too as they’re used to your water. 

That's a good point in most cases.  These new females were clearly young, though--at least judging from how they compare the the thousand or so other ones we've had around here 🙂  They did have a 4 hour car ride to get home, and they were going into new water, so that could very well have a big part to play in all of it.  I was just surprised when the male who grew up here also died.

[Beardedbillygoat1975]

Yep that’s different when an existing male passes. I’ve found them to be more problematic then other livebearers in terms of health. Cory did a thing on livebearer disease previously but this was certainly something more virulent then that. I lost all the fancy guppies I bought due to over feeding not too long ago so who knows. It’s hard when you don’t know.