Unknown disease in aquarium with Corydoras, Hasemania and Ramirezi

[Arkis]

Hello,

I really need help with our aquarium. In June we settled new south american 200l aquarium. After 3-4 weeks we added first fish (20x Hasemania nana, 8x Corydoras panda) and snails (Planorbarius corneus) to it. All the parameters were looking good. In this state we planned to get 4x Ramirezi Electric Blue but they were out of stock at that time. Unfortunatelly after around 2 weeks in the Corydoras started to die. There were no symptoms on them. No red gills, no holes and the poop looked normal. They just stopped swimming, started to lay on the ground and then they just died. One by one, around 4-7 days apart. In the end we ended up with only 2 Pandas. We had no clue what caused it and the seller (breeder) told us that sometimes it happens to them that they are too sensitive. So he told us to get Corydoras aeneus that they are much more hardy. So we bought 10 Corydoras aeneus from him and 4 Ramirezi el. Blue and everything was okay from then.

After another month I have noticed that some of the Hasemania nana started to hide. They got separated from the school and hid behind the rocks or plants. While feeding them I noticed that they have some "pimple" on their mouth. I got an advice that I should immediately get eSha 2000 and eSha Exit and start to add it daily to water according to manual. Two weeks in, the medication seems to do nothing. The pimple on the mouth was gone and it was replaced by a hole. So after telling this to the breeder he suggested to get eSha Hexamita instead of eSha 2000. After 3 more weeks of applying eSha Hexamita and eSha Exit it seems to not help. So far 4 Hasemania nana and 1 Ramirezi have died and I am desperate for help. Second Ramirezi has started to hide today and is really pale and heavy breathing. I think he will not last long. The worst thing is that to this day I have no clue what is killing the fish in the aquarium. Only the Corydoras looks normal. The two Pandas started to school with Aeneuses and are fine. But the Hasemanias and Ramirezis are slowly dieing.

If somebody can help me I would be really gratefull.

The water parameters are

NO2: 0 ppm

NO3: 20-30 ppm

chlorine: less than 8 ppm (there is no 0 in the result sheet)

tempterature: 25-26°C

water hardness: around 1,2 mmol/l (about 6,5 °dH)

pH: 6.5 but the medication lowered it. Usually it is around 7-7.5

Greetings,

Jan from Czechia.

[Keeg]

Those are really good looking rams. First step I would do is do a series of water changes to get your previous medication out of the water. Then make sure your water surface is well agitated with your outage or with an air stone. Then I would reccomend the holy grail or medicine, the Med Trio. It composes of maracyn, ich-x, and paraclease.  dosing instructions is under step 3. Also maybe start to consider finding a different seller if they are repeatedly selling susceptible fish that would normally be fine. 

[Colu]

Am assuming your in Europe if your using Esha I would get holed of Sera baktopur direct tables active ingredient is nifurpirinol a broad spectrum antibiotic you can get it of Amazon also as your showing chorine  in your  water are you using a dechlorinator like prime during water changes 

Edited September 18, 2021 by Colu

[Arkis]

Keeg: I will make some water changes. Also I am using Seachem Purigen (which is out of filter while using medications) and it should absorb medications. Unfortunately I am from Czechia (central Europe) and these medications are not sold here. But I found what active substances your suggested medication use and there are some alternatives. Problem is that the alternatives are made for humans so I have no clue about dosing it to aquarium. Also one of the medication is only for prescription in my country so no luck with that.

Colu: I heard about Sera baktopur but in the shop they told me it will kill most of bacteria in the aquarium (even the good ones) so it's like starting a fresh aquarium from the beginning. But I think I have to do it or else I will loose all the fish. I think there is no chlorine in the water. When doing water changes I am adding Seachem Prime and the water is rested at least 6 hours. The tests I am using have the lowest value of <0,8 mg/L of Chlorine (There is no 0 on the chart.). I always have that lowest value. 

 

PS: If you like the Rams, check this photo from last week of them keeping the eggs. 🙂They spawned for second time and it got eaten again. We have hatchery at home but on the internet we found that first 3-4 spawns should not be kept because they are not used to breeding because of age (eggs can be bad or the male is not fertilizing eggs properly).

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Arkis

[Arkis]

Today in the morning I found the third Ramirezi and He's not looking good. Compared to the other two he is dark, the orange "forehead" is almost without color and dark. He lost some weight (hasn't been eating for last 2 days and does not want to eat today either). He also have little bit bulged eyes and is rapidly breathing.

I uploaded some photos and videos on imgur.

https://imgur.com/a/r9Sxy7w

[Colu]

Theirs Sera baktopur active ingredient is acriflavin that will harm your benefial bacterial sera bactopur direct tables active ingredient is nifurpirinol shouldn't harm your benefial bacterial in a seasoned tank  that is what  I would treat with 

Edited September 17, 2021 by Colu

[Arkis]

Thanks a lot for the explanation. I believe you meant Bactopur direct, not active. I found on the sera website that it has that active agent. 

I ordered 24pcs package today. 

Hope it will help. I will keep you updated. Thanks a lot once more.

[Patrick_G]

Your aquascape is beautiful, I’m sorry you are having trouble with the fish but I’m glad your finding the necessary medications in Czechia. Do you have a active aquascaping scene there? 

[Arkis]

Patrick: There are some pretty good scapers in here. I think somebody from our country was like top 20 in some worldwide competition month or two ago but I am not focusing much on it. Honestly I wouldn't even call our aquarium "aquascaping". It's just two roots connected and the lava stones connected so the fish have caves and crevices they can hide in. 

[Arkis]

So, we are in the second half of the treatment. Yesterday I found dead Hasemania. There are 4 more Hasemanias that looks sick (are tilted while resting and only when alerted/fed they get straight. They also have white patches on them (not fungus). It looks like it is under the skin. That, in combination with the white lips, is indicator of cottonmouth (Columnaris bacteria). So I think we found out what is killing the fish. The Sera Baktopur direct should kill this bacteria, but because we tried to treat the aquarium with eSHA products before, the bacteria might be more resilient today. So the treatment maybe will have to be prolonged.

[Colu]

You will probably have to do a minimum of  2 course of Sera baktopur direct I would also add a small amount of aquarium salt 1 table spoon for 5 gallons it will help to improvement gill function and add essential electrolytes to help reduce stress in your fish at that level of salt won't harm your Cory's @Arkis 

Edited September 28, 2021 by Colu

[Arkis]

To be honest I have never put salt in the aquarium because I am afraid for Corys. After reading some articles this amount should be fine. So after today's water change I will add 130 grams of salt (man, that feels like a lot but I did the conversions multiple times - the aquarium is 200l but there is a lot of stones and wood so I count it as 150l). 

[Arkis]

Update after few months. All fish except Corydoras Aeneus are dead. I sent two dead fish to the laboratory and they found Pleistophora hyphessobryconis on the Hasemania and Ramirezi. Unfortunately it is untreatable. 

Now I have empty aquarium with just snails and Corydoras Aeneus. I do not know when I can put new fish to the aquarium. If the aquarium was empty the bacteria would die in 2-3 months because they would not have a breeding ground. But the Corydoras are all looking fine and I do not know if they are immune to this bacteria or if the spread is much slower in them. 

[Colu]

 neon tetra disease doesn't  infect catfish from what I have read I would Qarantine the Cory's and disinfect the tank and all equipment using hydrogen peroxide solution rinse well with dechlorinated water do this a couple of times  and leave to dry out completely for a month before adding any new fish as neon tetra disease can lay dormant in the tank and reinfect fish months later 

Edited January 31, 2022 by Colu

[Arkis]

I looked into suggested desinfection of the aquarium but I can't do it. 

There is thriving colony of snails which I do not want to loose but most importantly the whole aquarium is fully grown and I do not want the plants to die and start all over again. I will try to leave the aquarium running for a few months. Then I will buy one neon tetra like a "canary in the mine". If the tetra survives for few months I can tell the bacteria is gone. 

[Colu]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:44 AM, Arkis said:

Then I will buy one neon tetra like a "canary in the mine". If the tetra survives for few months I can tell the bacteria is gone. 

 it can also infect angelfish danios barbs and other species of tetras gourami's and Betta I just found some contradictory information on weather Cory's can get neon tetra disease I have read that they can't get it  I found some information saying they can get it so I wouldn't add any fish to that tank even if it empty for for a couple of months your remaining Cory could possible be infected I would just leave it with the remaining Cory and snails not add any new fish to the tank with out disinfecting the tank you will risk another out break of the disease