jwcarlson

You certainly don't have to worry about offending me or anything 🙂 Re: overdoing it... maybe, but I'd to grow out really nice discus otherwise what's the point? 😄 My understanding is that means lots of food and pounding them with clean water. At this point my biggest mistake was dumping the Fritz Zyme in... that must have caused some sort of crash (ph?) or bacterial? Either way, it proved fatal. I believe that I can change my way through the cycle based on a pretty large number of discus folks that say they don't necessarily exchange sponges, they just do large daily changes with prime and stability and eventually filters catch up. Your thoughts are dissimilar to mine as I have not wiped down the sides or bottom for a couple days. I will probably wipe the front tomorrow. Then the sides the following day. Then the back/wires then bottom. I got right to the cusp of being cycled (ammonia and nitrites were 0 or maybe very very slightly above) before I blew it with the Zyme. My tap water starts at 7 and ages to ~8.2 over 24 hours. I am not currently doing anything to chase pH. My understanding is that while my pH is high (and my water is hard as all get out) as long as all of that is stable, it's not a concern. I cannot argue with any of this as my discus are (or at least were) growing very well. Except the little dude. I am tempted to crank up the temp in my 37 and plop him in there. When he was alone in the 10 gallon he didn't eat, but will only take a couple pecks when there's other discus around. So I'm wondering if maybe in a community tank he'd be willing to eat. I have sponges and filters in another tank that I could bring over, but am genuinely afraid because of cross contamination. Which might sound silly, but have seen enough and heard around about it that it doesn't seem worth it. If I was trying to only change water weekly while allowing ammonia and nitrite to build up, then I would be more concerned. As of now, I'm just trying for some safety factor. Yeah I've got bees. I raise queens for my own use and to sell. Also sell nucleus colonies and honey (obviously). It started as a little hobby, but, not to toot my own horn... I have a knack for it and have grown from three purchases colonies to about 40 of them now (eight years). It's morphed into a small business, which has probably taken a little bit of the fun out of it. The main problem with bees as that the time required to maintain them is typically during daylight hours. Hours of which are in short supply for me. Conversely, I do all my discus maintenance after everyone else is in bed. I've gotten exceedingly efficient at keeping bees over the years, though, and because I breed my own - over time I've got a bee that does pretty well with my management style. Here's one of my 2019 queens, pictured in spring 2021 (her second production year):

Still extremely bummed about being down to nine. But the remainder, minus the one that barely eats, are doing well. They do like their nightly water change.

I've got a male thick-lipped gourami (was sold as a honey) in our 37 gallon. In any event, he is pretty interactive and fun to watch. There's not a cubic inch of tank volume that he doesn't frequent. Literally everywhere all the time... patrolling? Not mean to anyone... gets along great with what has probably grown to about 50 cherry shrimp, 15 tetras of a couple different types, and some sterbai corys. Everyone seems to get along well. He particularly loves floating vegetation, will come peck at your finger, and eat flake out of your hand as well.

Cory, not sure what kind (Bronze maybe?). The fact that he was still long enough for you to get a picture is kinda sad as I think corys only have one speed (full). Would probably be ecstatic with some friends. Edit to add he looks maybe a little hungry too, but could be the angle.

I'm glad it's not just me. Checked again tonight... tank water was again about 7.8 or maybe 8. Aged water 8.2 MAYBE like 8.3 if I'm doing my guessing. Holding it out from the card might make a bit of a difference, I guess. It's still all guess work IMO. I will say, though, than an unreliable digital instrument is probably worse than the color coding guessing game.

I used these as weights on top of the sponges to hold them down, they weren't even completely under water. I did probably leave them in there a bit too long. To be clear, I am not complaining or anything. The other suggestion someone gave was to microwave. I'm sure microwaving the sponge would be fine. I do this to sanitize potting soil. But if you microwave the ACO sponge filter you're going to end up needing a new sponge filter or microwave or perhaps both. There's A LOT of metal in the base of it (which is what I did with one of the ruined one... whack it with a hammer until I could see inside of it).

I've always kind of figured this was the case. Or they have strips of some sort. I will say that the Co-Op strips were spot on for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate when I checked them against the API test kit. The argument could be made that the strips might be easier to detect traces of the things you're testing. I will say that I don't look at any of the other colors on the test strip though as my values are off scale for most of them and the pH colors are all too close for me to figure out (or at least I've yet to figure out how to tease out what I think that test is). Which is why I've posted this thread twice 😄

I don't understand why the plastic on the base would warp, but the rest wouldn't... but it doesn't much matter, frankly. It wasn't designed to be boiled, I'm sure. It was a suggestion on the discus forum and that felt cleaner to me than putting some chemical in it and then worrying if I rinsed it all out. Right now I forced one base on and double stacked a set of sponges. The other is quasi floating. Two bases totally useless. 😄 The discus are back in the big tank as of last night. They were happy to see me this AM, though we've certainly taken a step or ten back considering almost all of my interactions with them for a week have involved near-fatal (fatal for one) illness, hands grabbing fish, nets scooping when that doesn't work, etc. While the tank was getting sanitized and everything cleaned/sanitized, I painted "fake sand" on the bottom of the tank (to be clear on the bottom OUTSIDE) and change the background from black window film to blue. As a result the fish look really pale. Which I am not stoked about. They look really pathetic compared to in the 75 w/ black background (and even in the 10 which also has a black back). In their defense, it could be because they just got moved around and crammed into a bucket, a tiny tank, a bucket again... etc. But I think it's the background/bottom doing it. Kind of wishing I would have just left it as is because the fish looked fantastic in person. I've seen so many people say that discus show color best against blue and light colored bottoms. So I'll give this some time and see. Exponentially more concerned with their health at this point, for sure. Can always change the background down the line again.

It's 2022 and I find myself asking why the testing technology for aquarium water is the same as it was 15+ years ago. Also why haven't we come up with grass that doesn't need to be mowed, but we have crops that can get plant killer dumped on them and not die. How we don't have a $50 testing widget that you just dump water in and it spins around for five minutes and then prints you a little receipt for the results is beyond me. I do wonder what stores use to test your water. Everyone holds that up as though it's a very good option. I've never done it, but wondering what fancy thing they've got... And how expensive it is 😄

Don't waste a bunch of time. 🙂 I believe you. I'm really good at following directions and it frustrates me to know end when a company means something different than what they write in their instructions. For example, how hard is this? (not shooting the messenger, by the way) 4. Read the test results by comparing the color of the solution to the pH Color Card. The tube should be viewed in a well-lit area looking through the side of the test tube towards the white area of the card with a one inch space between the tube and the card. The closest match indicates the pH of the water sample. Rinse the test tube with clean water after use.

How'd he get sand in there? And to stick there like that?

Interesting... the instructions (I believe) say "against a white background" which to me would indicate it, well... against it haha. Let me see if I can find the instructions. Might not be the most current version of instructions, but this is more or less what it says in mine. I have heard some people say that you can pop the cap and look "down" the tube against white, but I tried that and there's absolutely no way that would be possible (unless it was backlit or something, which kind of defeats the purpose).

After testing again and re-looking, I think left is 8.2. Right is 8.0. On standard test water on right is clearly off charts high. On Co-Op test strips the color looked the same for pH, but I don't look for specifics from strips. I age my water be cause it comes out of the tap at pH 7 and ages to 8.2. Last night I just decided to do a test and see how far off my discus tank was from their temporary tank so I didn't drop them into a massive pH difference and then saw a pretty big difference (in color at least). So I added a quart of water into the 10 gallon every 7 minutes for about an hour and rechecked. The color resulted looked like I'd mixed the two results pictured, so I figured that means they were closer. So I moved the fish over last night. They seemed OK this AM and ate. Larger issues going on last week that I won't get into here. My bigger complaint about the API test set is the colors for pH look absolutely nothing like they do in the tubes (at least to my eye). The ammonia/nitrite/nitrate seem to track pretty well. But the pH it feels like I am 100% guessing at what the color is actually trying to show. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that my "8.2" is actually off the charts high and my pH is like 9.4 in reality.

These are both high range tests. Done at least twice to confirm same results. What would you call left and right? Left is water from my aging barrels, right is from a tank I currently have 10 discus in on emergency situation. It's a 10 gallon. Has some ammonia and nitrites, will that drive it lower?

I boiled my sponges. Which destroyed the bases on my co-op filters 😞 Whoops. Taking this opportunity to paint the bottom (outside) and change the background. Peroxided the inside wiped/scrubbed everything 3+ times. Rinsed a bunch. Will rinse and scrub again tomorrow, it's all dry right now on end so I could paint it. Got a good source to buy seeded sponges? Thankfully the little sponge filter in the 10 gallon now is keeping nitrite at zero. I didn't test ammonia. Very very very light feeding in the 10 gallon to hopefully just keep them from slipping any further back. When I put the big tank back together and put filtration back in, should I squeeze that smaller sponge into the tank and let the bigger ones slurp up the leavings? Or maybe squeeze it into a bucket of dechlored water so it doesn't drop a bunch of gunk in the tank. That would be easy enough. Put the little filter in the big tank and could feed the filters in the bucket easy enough. I've got more filters coming from the Co-Op because right now all of them in the tank are going to be baseless and floating around. 😄 I tend to have a good cascade of problems once one thing goes wrong. All the other plastic on the filters was fine, but the bases bubbled up like they inflated internally. The top ring where the center tube thing that holds the sponge shrunk down by about 20% so nothing fits on it. The good thing is the fish seem "ok" for the time being. I am, however, very disappointed that I didn't move them sooner. Live and learn. I'll spare the dead fish pic, but it was a beautiful "blue diamond". I only bought two of them and was really considering getting ten just of them. He was already 3.25" long.

Yeah I have a community tank in which everyone seems healthy. My only hangup is the "cross contamination" issue that seems pretty prevalently spoken about in discus circles. There's a guy that I might be able to have ship me a sponge, I vaguely remember him saying he keeps sponges ready for new discus keepers... I'd pay him handsomely for one right now.

I don't necessarily disagree... but I already wipe the inside walls down every evening with water change. Wipe the bottom when I can't get it clean (about every other change). And same with the inside of the lids. Also wipe down the wires/tubes/heaters nightly and then every few days unhook the air hoses and clean the areas inside the sponge tubes. I'm increasingly worried that something entered the system somehow. But I used all the same hoses, barrels, etc to fill the hospital tank. The difference between the two tanks are the filters. I don't know... my mind is racing and at this point there's not much to do but wait. I've already drained the 75... I'm nuking the whole thing, "cycle" be darned. I'm already wrapping my head around putting the same sponges back in at all, honestly. Enough of my rambling. Nothing to do but wait at this point.

Thanks 🙂 In the 10 gallon the change was... almost instantaneous. The one who was previously in the tank started pecking at stuff. The rest of them except one went after a little piece of beef heart after they'd been in there for an hour or so. They didn't eat much, but they hadn't faced the front of their tank since Wednesday. They're at least scooting around this little tank. What's the best way to completely sterilize everything? I'm talking wipe everything out in all the sponges and everything.

One dead this evening, probably only a matter of time now. The remaining all joined the QT tank. No idea what to do with the 75. I am stumped. Fin damage on tails, backs of dorsals, and pectoral now too. Really difficult to believe a bottle of Fritz Zyme did this especially considering the single guy got a few glugs of the same bottle. Really depressing. They seemed unchanged this AM which I took for a good sign. 😞

@Torrey I appreciate your reply. I am not fretting too much after they weren't dead this afternoon and they weren't doing any tiltawhirl maneuvers. I am aware of the mighty discuses' famed finicky-ness, which is probably part of the allure, if I am honest. I like a challenge. And I am hard on myself when I make mistakes. I am unsure what possessed me to put the stuff in, but maybe I am over focusing on that and not attributing enough to the water temp. But they're been dealing with going from 86ish down to 83 pretty much daily. BUT water changes have been stepping up daily from 40% now to 70%. Thankfully the heater showed up so aged water should better match tank temp from here out. The point about low fish on the totem pole is not lost on me and I waited about 10 days to finally move him. He does not seem ill at all, but seems to just not be interested in eating. If he doesn't start in a week, I am not sure what I will do. Thinking back, I also finished a bottle of stability and decided not to open a new one. So this could be any number of things, which stinks... But I troubleshoot and fix stuff for a living, so I think I am up for the challenge. And not unprepared to lose "livestock" as I raise honey bees and chickens. The next 8ish hours should hopefully help me further access what is going on. And I won't even attempt feed until they start begging again, if they get back to that point. And it's only been 3.5 weeks, so maybe I screwed it up right before we exited the first tunnel. 🤣 One, perhaps not often pondered, side effect of a bare bottom might be that there is less surface area for bacteria, and I am wiping almost every surface every other day(rotating a bit). I have three large co-op sponge filters, and one of the sponge filters with finer sponges (two about the size of soda cans). So I should have entry of aeration and surface area for bacteria in the sponges, I think. Cory and Zenzo answered my question on the member stream today, which was unrelated to all of this, actually. But has been the subject of a lot of my thoughts about flow rate vs bacterial colony "size". Gave me some things to think about.

I do not know what to think. Fins have some minor "melt" on tails and back of dorsal fins. Just did a big water change. Maybe their state in the morning will lead me to question the water somehow. Double checked pH to make sure not swinging and it is the same aged and in tank. 😞

Everything survived. What was the sickest fish is now the best (he is isolated). The other 9 are in a clump. So I think that eliminates the water as cause as it was from same source. Their tank is extremely cloudy. I think I must have wiped out the bacteria colonies in the sponges somehow. The only other marginal explanation is that the cat terrorized them last night because I forgot to lock him downstairs for the night (he bothers the kids tries to sleep on my face all night). I really doubt that this was the cause based on the cloudiness. Water parameters look close to what they did the first two weeks. Minor traces of ammonia, nitrite (so faint I can barely tell), nitrate low as I did not feed today. This sucks, but they're alive... No one was pitching side to side this afternoon so far and they are at least schooled. So maybe a minor improvement. Ugh.

I cracked a window in the house (one of the two panes) and put a bunch of clear packing tape over all of it so that it doesn't fall apart (all windows are being replaced this spring). You could honestly do that just fine and it would probably be "OK" indefinitely. I just recently tried to trim like a half inch off of a lid... how a 29 gallon lid doesn't fit a 37 gallon with the same dimensions (except taller) is beyond me. But it broke when I tried to snap the cut part off. 😄 So now I'm at least $50 into this lid ($30 for one and $20 for another) and I think I'm going to take it to the local glass shop and have them cut it for me. Just make sure no little pieces of glass can get out and present something for your fish to eat.

I almost hesitate to say anything about this, because I've got a really bad feeling about my discus. Going on their fourth week with me. All has been great, 9 of the 10 are growing well, but one has been very slow to eat and that's probably been happening since I got them, but I just didn't notice. Short story is he comes right up to the feed and is kind of lost in the fray. Eventually he started shying away more. And now I've noticed he'll come up and get pushed away, almost like he lacks confidence. But then about once a day or so he'll really aggressively go take a couple good bites. And the other day several people suggested I raise the temp a bit and that might spur him. So he ate better after that but the following few days he's been muscled out more and seems like he'll never get his share at this rate. So I made the decision yesterday and pull him out into his own 10 gallon. So after water change last night I did so. And he seems "the same" as he has been. Taking the advice of a few 'old hats' who do not cycle discus aquariums, but just do daily water changes and use prime and stability daily for the first weeks. All of this has gone pretty well, and the tank was partially cycled anyway when I got the fish. I was testing at least once a day for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. Ammonia had a minor reading occasionally, just using the strips, so and every so slightly light green. But after a week or so that stayed at zero. Fish seemed unaffected during the whole thing. (daily 40% water changes). Nitrites a similar story... every so slight pinkness. And that went to zero about a week ago and remained there for a few days. Last night while I was slurping water out I just decided to ammonia and nitrite. Ammonia showed like 0.25 PPM on the strip, which I'm not saying is a real measurement, but what I would consider "presence". Now I'd just wiped all the interior glass, wires, tubing down. So thought maybe that could cause it to look high. Finished the water change, filled up the 10 gallon for the "sick" discus, and remembered that I had another bottle of Fritz Zyme 7. I'd used a bottle the day I got the fish. I thought that maybe it would be a good idea to put a little BB dose into the 10 gallon and because I saw some ammonia "why not" dump the rest into the big tank. So I did that and dropped the elevated tank temp down a bit from 90 to 87 as it was already at about 85 from the water change. So fast forward to this morning, I'm up at 4:30 (every morning). Little dude in his new tank looks fine and it's holding 90 degrees like it was when I went to bed at 11:30. I didn't look at the big tank right away as the light doesn't come on until 5:30. I play with the dogs and dink around the house for about an hour like every morning. A bit after 5:30 I go drop their morning beefheart in. They don't go after it and they don't swim up to "beg". Hmm. Don't think much of it as I've fed them too soon after the light first comes on and they've been weird before. So I take my shower and come back. The fish are all "apart". They're near the top and while watching... one of them kind of pitches over horizontal and then rights itself. And that happens a few more times. No one has even acknowledged the beefheart. I think suddenly that maybe there was more ammonia than I'd thought and that the BB I dumped in caused a nitrite spike. So I check everything. Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate <5. There was a quite a bit of debris on the bare bottom which must have come from the Fritz Zyme (lights were off when I dumped it in and I know there's some solids 'stuff' in it when I've used it in the past). But there did seem like a bit more. So I vacuumed the bottom and the beefheart up. Triple checked the temp which was as the temp controller said (86-87). Dosed prime again and refilled the 10ish gallons I'd taken out. Unfortunately all I had was overnight aged water that was only about 76 degrees, probably, but it didn't drop the tank temp much at all. Also added salt. If my barrel was up to temp I'd have done a 55 gallon change. I feel terrible and I am hoping that I just threw them for a bit of a loop. Pretty upset that I dumped the stuff in, but having used it like four times previously including once on these exact fish and this bottle having come in the same shipment... I don't know that it should be a real concern. I was going to run home at lunch today, but know that there's not anything I can really do I'm just letting it weigh on me instead. I keep replaying everything I've done. I recently upgraded to a bigger water barrel, but this is like the 4 or 5th (60-70%) water change from that barrel and would guess that whatever issue there might have been would have been there from the initial change. I have an additional heater coming as the "open box" one I bought on Amazon was a dud and my water change water isn't quite up to the right temp, so changes are dropping the temp a bit... but again this is like the 5th change like this and it hasn't been an issue before. Last night doing the water change I noticed a gross perfume-y smell when I bent down to clean up some water. Our 3 year old smelled kind of like it earlier in the afternoon and figured she sprayed something from my wife's collection of stuff. I looked all over and couldn't find the source and the fish seemed fine. This AM I smelled it more and did eventually locate a bottle of "room refresher" that was up on my book shelves where little one couldn't have gotten to it. I don't think anyone has sprayed it, so I'm guessing that was just a wiff I was catching sometimes. The tank didn't smell off at all. Thinking that's just a red herring. I'm absolutely dreading what the scene might look like when I get home. 😞 Somewhat thankful that I have training and meetings most of the day to keep my mind off of it. But sitting here during a lunch break allowed me to continue grinding away in my mind. Hoping they all come rushing over to say "Hi" when I get home, but really really worried they're going to be belly up.

I'd look after 30 seconds and then look every minute after for say, 10 minutes, and see if there seems to be a time at which the colors get extra screwy.