tolstoy21

Ok I'll tackle these in order. 1) I gave up on breather bags because they have a higher failure rate than double-bagged poly bags. Double-bagged poly bags almost never fail. (I've personally never had one fail). 2) I'll be honest, I'm not sure there is a science to how many to put in a bag. If there is, I haven't learned it yet! I tend to put no more than three 1 inch fish in a 4" wide bag. I don't put more than three 2 inch fish in a 6" wide bag. If I can get away bagging one fish per bag, that is my preference. But that's all just guess work based on what's worked for me. Really, I just look at the fish in the bag and make a judgement call on if they look cramped or will pollute themselves to death if they happen go to the bathroom in the bag. 3) Put a heat pack in the box if it's going to be less that 60F at the destination. Anything above that, most species of fish are perfectly fine. Always tape it to the lid and make sure there is room between it and the fish. 4) I like to ship smaller fish because there is a larger water-to-fish ratio in the bag. Also, it allows smaller, lighter boxes which = less shipping costs. 5) You also asked if over night shipping is better? Yes, but . . . . . I think overnight is best when it's going to be 90F+ at the shipping destination. And by overnight I mean it has to arrive at the customer before noon. Anything that lasts in a truck past noon on a 90F+ day has its fate thrown to the wind! If I see a package delayed until the afternoon and its status is marked 'out for delivery' on a 90F day-- I expect to receive pictures from the customer of bags filled with fish stew. This is the only reason overnight is sometimes a necessity. 2nd-Day delivery is 100% fine in normal temps. Also, I find that delays at shipping hubs are fine EXCEPT those in Dallas TX. Anything held there in the summer, delayed for the day -- that also becomes fish stew. Fish casualties typically happen in the last stretch of the journey which occurs in the back of a hot delivery vehicle. I hope this long-winded response helps some.

I'm pretty sure O2 can permeate Styrofoam fine, at least at the rate fish consume it. I've shipped a lot of fish in breather bags in 1" stryo-lined boxes without much air space, or what air space there was stuffed with packing materials. I've never lost a shipment due to the fish running out of O2 that I know of. My losses are typically from leaky bags or delayed shipments in high heat. Now, I'm not suggesting one should cram them into the box without any wiggle room at all. But 'some' space is needed in my experience, and by some I mean, just don't have the breather bags in direct contact with each other or the stryo walls. If you have a finger's with between them, that's sufficient. As for regular bags, I bag in pure O2 and go 50/50 water/O2 (or more if I have space in the box). I'd guess 1/4 water, 3/4 regular old air is probably about right, but don't have direct experience with that myself.

I'm still firmly in the undecided category. But you see them daily, so you undoubtedly have a much better perspective on them. I guess if they are over 4 months of age at this point, then my feeling is that the 'male' should already begin showing characteristics of that sex, especially in a tank whose only other occupant is a female.

Ok one more reply! I found pictures of wild caught males and females. I would look to these for comparison to your fish, and less at the tank-bred 'red' lines. Male Female

Still hard to say from the photos. I would continue to look at these two fins (circled in blue) and see if they start to extend in length out past the base of the tail. If you look at examples of females, those fins typically do not extend much out past their tail's base. I have sexed a bajillion of these, but I will fully admit that my experience with them is solely based on fish that have been selectively bred, so I don't know how much the exaggerated fin shapes are a result of that lineage and/or what's normal in something closer to wild caught.

@Mattlikesfish36 If you can catch a photo of it with its fins flared (easier said than done!) that would be very helpful. That's where I would focus my attention if coloration isn't helping you as an identifying characteristic.

Yup, that's me. I took one of my photos and made it black and white in an attempt for us to ignore the colors of the fish because the extent of color (and patterning for that matter) in the fins is a result of selective breeding. I would focus more on size of the fish over all and the fin shape itself, as seen below. However, in my experience, the males and females can remain a similar size for a bit, but then the female simply stops getting bigger and reaches its max size, while the male keeps growing. The male isn't bigger from day-one, or even month one or two. It just grows larger over time. There is also a bit or variation in the size of a male fish, from one specimen to another, based on its dominance in a tank and its access to food quality and quantity. So, it's very possible for both fish to be the same size, but a different sex, but over time, the male (if yours is a male) will get much larger than the female. Fin shape, however, begins to develop much earlier. But that also takes time to fully develop.

I would say the fish in the center of both pictures (is that the same fish?) is, in my opinion, a female if these are A. Cacatuoides. In Cacatuoides the females typically, but not always, display those vertical black bars on the ventral fins. I don't normally see this in the males. The dorsal and caudal fins are also distinctly female. That fish strikes me as an Cacatuoides female in body shape, and the black patterning, but just without the typical orange that's found in the fins current double and triple red lines. Am I correct in assuming that the fish in the center of both photographs is the same fish? If so, can you capture a better picture of the second fish? Below is a picture of a female I just snagged off the interwebs that I'm going to guess is much closer to wild caught than the ones that have been selectively bred to have vibrant orange fins. Yeah, please post a more detailed picture of this fish if you can. But I'm going to double down on my opinion that you are right, the one in the center of both photos is a female.

Ha! I had the same initial reaction when I say the post title. I was going to ask if the poster was a bot or a bit of code that suddenly became sentient and decided it liked aquariums. Either way Welcome @Jacc !

@TheSwissAquarist I would say 10g is minimum, but they would probably prefer something a little bigger. So a 20g long is probably more than enough for a pair of these.

I'll second Greg Sage's line. These are my fish from that lineage. They really do get this red and black,

God I've had like 200 in a 40 gallon! However, they weren't full-sized and I change a ton of water and have 2 sponge filters running and an oversized HOB. Realistically, based on my experience, 30 would be the upper limit, and maybe pushing it, so I'd recommend 24. But keep your eye on your water params, have ample filtration and you probably won't be able to stock much of anything else. But . . . . a big school of Odessas is awesome! As others have said, they like cooler waters, but they are also Ok at temps in the upper 70s. They also like highly oxygenated water so don't be shy about turning up your airstone.

We just had a long discussion about this the other week. Lots of good information in this thread -- Additionally, this is probably the best video I have found on the topic.

When I had a planted tank I never ever vacuumed the sand substrate. Not even once. Now I have Oscars in the tank and I still have the same substrate. I vacuum routinely now cause Oscars poop like labradors and I don't like looking at it. When I siphon, I hold the siphon at an angle and crimp the tube to slow the rate of flow and let the sand fall back to the bottom while still getting the gunk up. Takes some practice, but after a while its second nature. Sure you'll lose some sand, but I find it to be a negligible amount if done right.

The video is like eight to ten years old or so, if I remember correctly. And, alas, others asked and no replies. Thanks for all the other tips! I could just set up a live stream and crowd source it by posting a link here! 😉

They are in RO right now. If I do a water change with cooler RO water, it triggers them. That and feeding live black worms. I seem to be able to trigger them no problems, i just can't get the fry to hatch. Mostly the parents eat the eggs, but when I see the eggs disappearing, it's after a few days, so they either hatch and die or hatch and get eaten, or the female eats the infertile/bad eggs (is that even a thing?). All in all, they have spawned about 5 times. There is an older YouTube video out there where someone has gotten the fry to hatch and they are following around the mother. The youtuber then mentions that this was something like their 95th try at this. He was so ecstatic with joy. So, I guess the moral of the story is patience?

@Beardedbillygoat1975 Ok just took a Ph reading and it's sitting at 5.4. Going to add a bunch of oak leaves this weekend and see if that moves it down a bit more. Right now I have a bunch of peat pellets in a box filter. Those have been brewing for a while. They could need refreshing as I'm not sure how long they last.

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

This is my second spawn of these, still growing out the first. Need to see if I can separate the males and females this weekend (of the first spawn). I'm not familiar enough yet with this species to feel confident about sexing them very young. They all look identical to my eyes up until recently. And the fact that they hide a lot makes it harder to observe them. Also, anyone have any suggestions for a bottom feeder that's good to keep with apistos that won't 1) eat the fry 2) get killed by the mother? I find it hard to keep their tanks clean without routinely siphoning out uneaten food (and yes I do try feeding less). Once they spawn, I don't siphon at all for the obvious reasons and this makes the tanks get pretty gunky. The water itself stays clean through auto-water changes. But it would be nice for some kind fish to help me out, but I don't want to out it in a steel-cage match with a new mother!

@Odd Duck and @Beardedbillygoat1975, thanks for the advice. Coincidentally, I did actually order a decent Ph meter the other day and am receiving it this week. I recently acquired a couple pairs of Apistogramma Abacaxis and they also require Ph in the 4s to successfully breed. All I know with the Ivancara is that their Ph is currently below 6 because that's all I can measure with the common aquarium kits. So their Ph could be 0 or it could be 5.9, I have no way of knowing. Hopefully the meter will help me get a better idea of where it's at and I can tweak from there. I haven't seen anything online about their eggs being light sensitive, but I also haven't seen much out there about how to successfully breed them, other than low Ph and clean water. The TDS in their water is currently suuuuuper low, so I'm also wondering if I add a teeny-tiny bit of hardness back into the mix, if that may have any impact. However, one change at a time . . . first experiment with the Ph levels and if that doesn't work, maybe introduce a little bit of mineralization into the water. I have read they come from 'nutrient poor' waters, but how poor is 'nutrient poor'? Dunno. Maybe my current water is like 'nutrient bankrupt'. Right now, I can get them to breed no problems. Just can't get any fry. But . . . maybe my problem is a simple one, the parents eating them! (I did pull the eggs once and put them in a breeder box, but no luck there either. All but a few were infertile and those didn't develop).

You know, I don't know. But you are half-right about the coloration, the male does not always display such vibrant stripes, while the female usually does.

@OutBoutYou know, in the pair I have they both display a ton of color, depending on mood, etc. The pic above is the male. The one below is the female.

They do. But I am unsure if the eggs are unviable and they know it, so they eat them. Or if they just eat them cause "why not?" 🤷‍♂️ I've had them spawn 4 times (that I know of) and no eggs have made it through to produce fry. I have heard these aren't the easiest fish to breed, so I'm just going to keep trying. Fingers crossed, I'll get fry out of these guys some day.

Yes, this is very true with apisto species, especially around breeding time. I like pencil fish too. They are a cool, attractive fish. Just haven't gotten any myself yet. I have waaaaay too many endlers on hand, so they are my goto dither for that reason alone.

Apisto Cacs will be fine with other fish. You can use any small, mid-to-top-dwelling fish as a dither. For instance, the smaller tetras species, zebra danios, pencil fish, etc. I use endlers, when needed for shy apistos. You just need something that swims confidently out in the open, above them, to make them feel secure the coast is clear from predatory fish. I have found that they get spooked by fast swimming, rambunctious fish, like some barb species (Odessa Barbs, in personal my experience). Also, try to pick fish that aren't super fast, food hogs and that will let food settle to the bottom for them. If you're trying to breed them, then pick smaller fish that can't/won't eat the fry. The male won't show aggression to other fish species, in my experience. They just get aggressive with other males for territory. Females on the other hand can get aggressive with every other living creature in the known universe if they are guarding their children. A 17 is totally fine. I keep mine in 20 gallon highs, but just because that's the standard tank size I buy. They will happily live in a 10 gallon. But in a smaller tank, you have to also take into account with the space needed by the other species, especially if you have other bottom-dwelling fish in the aqaurium.