Pepere
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Posts posted by Pepere
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This is the whole tank to see it in context.
my hope is for it to mostly fill in the space between the rock and the tiger lotus and double in height from where it is now and in the same time period have the Rotala wallichii stand in the bavk grow out in height and be able to widen and deepen that patch, and the Ludwigia Repens mature and fill out. The Ludwigia has a lot of small short stems behind the Tiger Lotus mostly out of sight.
This week I also added some S.Repens under the Tiger Lotus in bare area coming around the rock towards the front, and I added some AR mini last night on the right side just in front of some AR, and some all the way to the left. Hoping these develop into a thick dense mat around 1.5 to 2 inches tall. My thought was that on the right it would transition nicely from a different AR kept around 4 inches tall. Time will tell…
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The biggest thing I think was moving the tiger lotus away from the pink flamingo crypt…. Whether it was root structure competing for nutrients or allelopathy I dont know. I had a mesh bag of aquasoil near it all along.
It took a few months after doing so to see the crypt start gaining mass… and eventually it seems to get to a tipping point of growth…
Lighting, water changes, and water column fertilization has been stable for about 6 months.
for months and months before moving the tiger lotus, the crypt would put out a new leaf and an old leaf would melt away at about the same rate. It was just running in place….
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On 1/18/2024 at 8:56 PM, Colten OSteen said:
Yes so if it takes four days add how much ammonia and if 8 add 1/4 of it?
On 1/18/2024 at 3:36 PM, Pepere said:After you reach zero ammonia, zero nitrite check your nitrate levels if over 40 ppm do a 50% water change to lower nitrates. redose tank with Ammonia to get to 2ppm.
see how long it takes to get to zero Ammonia and Zero nitrite. When it gets to zero ammonia, zero nitrites in a time frame you are happy with, you can consider it cycled.
if it didnt get there fastenough repeat exactly as first line above states.I like to see it get there in 24 hours. Other might be content with it there in 48 hours.
The quicker it gets there the more bioload it can handle.
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This thing hung around barely alive for months and months…. Finally it is starting to thrive and have good coloration…
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On 1/18/2024 at 6:29 PM, Colten OSteen said:
The ammonia and nitrite are going down and when it does go to 0 I add ammonia and next day will be 0
When you measure 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, check your nitrates. If they are high, do a waterchange to lower them and then dose 2 ppm ammonia.
It would be very unlikely for you to see it 0 ammonia 0 nitrite the next day.it will likely take several days, but, each time you redose ammonia, you will see it happens faster.
say for instance it takes 4 days to get to zero ammonia, zero nitrite… that means your beneficial bacteria can process half a ppm of ammonia bioload per day…. If it takes 8 days instead of 4, your bacteria can only process 1/4 ofa ppm per day…
Iirc when I was cycling my tank, in fairly short order I could get 2 ppm of ammonia to go to zero in 24 hours, but then it would take days for the nitrite to drop to zero…
it took much longer for the nitrite reducing bacteria to establish itself in sufficient numbers.
There are things you can do to help the bacteria grow faster. The bacteria likes more alkaline water up to ph of around 8 iirc, and it likes warmer temps like around 78-80. And it likes well oxygenated water, so an extra airstone bubbling away…
Other than that it takes the precious commodity so hard to come by… patience and time…
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Ok. A but to unpack.
yes the API can be hard to discriminate in the ranges you discuss. 1 method I use to determine the difference is to alsodu a 50% dilution of tank water and test that. Ie 1/2 cup tankwater, half cup ro water and test a 5 ml sample. If original tank water has you guessing is it 5 or 10 ppm, then the 50% dilution should make it clear. Ie if it is hard to tell the difference between the two sample assume it was closer to 10, and if there is a big difference, assume it was 5.
same concept with 40 or 80…
that looks closer to 40 to me, but a dilution will give more clarity. As such, you could probably benefit from a few back to back changes to get tank nitrate level before dosing Easy Green down to the 5-10 range…. When I say back to back, that can mean next day etc,,.Then dosing with Easy Green from there to give the plants enough other nutrients.
It is always a good ideato remove as much algae manually as you can. Ie snip off heavily infested leaves. They are likely too far gone to recover anyways, remove decor to spray with peroxide and allow them to sit 10 minutes after spraying them in a dark spot, (peroxide loses potency exposed to light. Wave hand over substrate to raise detritus and siphon that, wave hands through plants etc… Try to siphon out any visible free floating algae. The more algae particles you remove the less to propagate new growth.
I would not be attacking algae before feeding the plants to allow them to grow. Healthy thriving plants typically do not get covered with Algae.
I have tufts of bb algae grow on a rock or two on occasion but the plants are by and large free of it…. Healthy thriving plants defend themselves well against algae.
) By your math above, each pump of Easy Green raises a 10 gallon tank by 3 ppm. So that would mean for my 18 gallon tank, assuming I was starting from 0 ppm (which I'm not, but for easy math), I would need like 14 pumps of Easy Greento get around the necessary dosage to reach 20-25 ppm range?
yes right around there..
if your tank is currently 40 ppm nitrate and you do another 50% water change with water that has no nitrates in it that would lower you to around 20 ppm. Another 50% change after that would drop you closer to 10 ppm.
Alternatively a single 75% water change would also drop you to 10 ppm.then you could add back 8-10 pumps of Easy Green to bring you up to around 20-30 ppm…
Then you wait. Next week, do another water change after removing all algae you can manually and try to dose as close as you can to what you had. Avoid other changes… keepthings stable
It will take 2-3 weeks for plant to reprogram for the new nutrient soup you are giving them. New growth gets reprogrammed much better than old growth. In 3-4 weeks you should start seeing healthy new growth…. As new growth grows out clip off old dying leaves. With stem plants clip off new growth and replant discarding the old weak growth…
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On 1/18/2024 at 4:55 PM, awgraham said:
Did a 50% water change today, waving hand over substrate before doing so.
I would dose Easy Green to have total tank nitrates around 20-25 ppm.
this will require much more dosing than the Easy Green label…. Each 1 ml pump of Easy Green raises Nitrate 3 ppm in a 10 gallon tank.
WIting for better GH, KH test kit is reasonable enough. I think @Mmiller2001 recommendation to lower it is primarily to lower the ph which will allow better plant utilization of the Iron in Easy Green that gets bound up and inaccessible to plants in higher ph.
Not only is it what “I would do” it is by and large what I actually do…And these are the results I get doing it. Now granted I also have CO2 running, but increasing your macro and micronutrients are likely to improve things substantially from where they are now.
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It took me nearly two months with repeated ammonia dosings and multiple doses of bacteria in a bottle from multiple brands,which I dont think gave me any benefit at all personally, to get the tank to the point that dosing the tank to 2 ppm ammonia would convert to nitrates with zero ammonia and zero nitrites in 24 hours…
I probably dosed the tank with ammonia about 6-7 times in that two months, but I forget the exact count…
By using the standard of metabolizing 2 ppm ammonia, that means the tank can handle 2 ppm ammonia being dosed by fish and feeding a day. This is probably more than your fish and feeding will produce, but it gives you a safety buffer…
Many people choose not to cycle their tank to this standard and that can work as well. It involves betting just a few fish initially and giving the tank time to mature with a few fish, and testing frequently for ammonia and nitrites and being prepared to do a water change as needed to lower those levels.. Adding fish also has the benefit of adding live nitrifying bacteria to seed the tank further cause fish poo has the bacteria you need in it…
There is not necessarily a right or wrong as to what standard you choose to cycle to, just different means of dealing with stocking and caring for fish initially…
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I would still suggest going with weekly 50% water changes with water mix to get you at the very least below 2 degrees of kh, and Dose the water with Easy Green to 20-25 ppm nitrates.
with an 18 gallon tank you are looking at around 12 ml of Easy Green to add around 20 ppm nitrates. You are currently around 20 ppm so a 50% water change would drop to 10. This would give you around 30 ppm total front loaded. It would also give much needed micronutrients…. At current dosing, your livestock, feeding provides a fair amount of nitrates, and so e phosphorous, but that is reading low as well…
I-think waiting to see what the change in lights will do by itself will mean buying new plants and growing more algae…
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There are many definitions as to what constitutes fully cycled…
Some dose a single shpt of Ammonia and consider it cycled whenthey read nitrates, but zero ammonia and zero Nitrites.,,
Some people want to be able to see the tank metabolize a 4 ppm dose of ammonia to zero ammonia, zero nitrites in 24 hours…
The standard you want to aim for, is of course your choice.
If you have not had help from a seasoned tank, you are highly unlikely to achieve that second standard in 17 days even with bacteria in a bottle products..
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I agree with mmiller2001. When plants have algae growing on them it is generally because they are not healthy and thriving.
dosing the tank with Hydrogen peroxide or pulling plants and spraying them or washing peroxide over them under water is not going to address the plant health meaningfully. I know cause I stubbornly tried for months… and I tried liquid carbon products as well with no results to show for it… and I tried algae eating fish…
It is not so much algae growing on your plants causing them to suffer as it is suffering plants leaching waste organics and nutrients that algae finds amenable to them…
Treating hardscape with peroxide is fine.
Doing changes mentioned above will not resolve it over night or within a few weeks, but similar efforts is what gave me success…
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I used to work at a major US catalog and online retailer involved with taking international orders. Canada was our biggest international customer.
It was amazing how many of our Canadian living customers had US shipping addresses and Canadian Billing addresses. They lived near enough to the border they would have a us address to deliver to and they would go pick up their package in the us and bring it over the border themselves. Allowed them to avoid the duties…
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If you have a cycled sponge filter you should not need to do a water change.
I would also not feed them.
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On 1/13/2024 at 7:22 PM, Jeff said:
Both pics are stunning; but I enjoy the first pic better 😉
Yes, but that had grown out. I have learned that a layout always looks much better after 3-4 weeks after a redo…
29 gallon Aqueon cheap tank…
Fluval 207 with glass intake with surface skimmer, and spray bar. Side mounted air driven double sponge filter is just there to keep it full of beneficial bacteria ready to go into a quarantine tank as needed.
pressure CO2 via inline diffuser.
2 Finnex Planted Plus ALC lights controlled by Nicrew timer dimmers
cheap inert aquarium gravel, but bags of aquasoil interspered below it.
I view this tank as a workspace to be learning how to aquascape. It has already helped me learn a lot about how to grow healthy plants and minimize algae. So much to learn…
I am intending this thread to be a working document I can view my progress over time,,,
Suggestions welcomed..
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So far, my goal has been to learn to grow healthy plants…
my goal used to be killing algae, but, if you grow healthy plants, you are not going to have them infested with Algae…. So I learned to concentrate on growing healthy plants. I threw away my remaining Easy Carbon. I never really perceived it was doing much anyway…
I am getting rather comfortable growing healthy plants and avoiding algae….
My tanks however tend to confused and overgrown and cluttered….
case in point…
I learned early on that plant species look better when in bunches rather than a stem here and a stem there…. Little colonies of plants…
But the background of val is just too much… and covering the top shades out the understory excessively…
This actually after a fairly heavy retrenchment. It opens up the surface for light penetration and allows some negative space…
This clean up was a good start…. But…
here is a major rearrangement. In the first photo you barely see any of the rocks. Just a hint here and there… and several rocks you dont even see a hint of.. and to what end? I mean what purpose is a rock in the tank if you never see it? You sure cant plant in that spot unless you glue a rhizome plant..
So I pulled out three rocks. The remaining ones were brought forward on the left allowing me to move the tiger lotus Forward and to the left allowing a stand of Ludwigia repens to grow behind it. Yes it is all there behind it and will be visible after a few weeks of growth…. Thank you @Mmiller2001 for this suggestion. Anubias reduced and excess moved to other tanks..
MyScarlet Temple was replanted where there was a rock to move it back from the front glass, and the Rotala Walichii was moved to the background between the Ludwigia Repens and Cardinal Lobelia,.
I also completely removed the Bacopa as it was cluttering more than anything…
At this point I am going to let it grow in for 3-4 weeks before considering other options.
Honestly I am rather overwhelmed with all I have to learn. Composition, trimming pruning , complimentarity, textures colors shapes…
But, @Mmiller2001 says its easy. Just keep removing what doesnt look right and adding what does….
I suppose a Chimpanzee pecking at a keyboard long enough might just type out Shakespeare eventually….
But I need to remember how overwhelmed I was with Algae and at a loss of how to deal with it…
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Is BDBS larger grain size than the pool sand you were using before?
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On 1/13/2024 at 3:18 PM, Mmiller2001 said:
In fact, the vast majority of plants available (to the hobby) do not need anything but plain old water column dosing regardless of substrate type.
I can accept that they don’t “need” root tabs…. But do root tabs or soils provide them with any benefit? Or even another question, are there ever any benefits to using root tabs? Or just an unnecessary expense?
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On 1/13/2024 at 5:18 AM, Galabar said:
Various sources seem to state that ammonia becomes more toxic as temperature rises.
Yes. Because the ph, ammonia, ammonium curve shifts to the acidic side as temp rises.
However with trips from lfs to house lasting under a few hours, I really would not be concerned with ammonia levels…. If I tested said water and found ammonia I would be rather concerned about ammonia levels in the fish stores tanks…at 1 ppm ammonia in water from 48 hour transit from Aqua Huna, I have no concerns at all. I temp acclimate and transfer fish into a net and transfer netted fish to tank. Aqua Huna water typically arrives around 7.2-7.4 ph.
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I get fish shipped from Aqua Huna that spend 48 hours in transit that the water tests at a bit under 1 ppm ammonia.
I am not concerned about ammonia build up from the lfs to my house that an additional 15 minutes in the bag equalizing to tank water causes me any concern.
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On 1/12/2024 at 10:06 PM, Mmiller2001 said:
I’ll keep that up for a month and see how it goes. Thanks again.
I agree with @Mmiller2001on the water change issue, but I would encourage you to allow more than a months time for changes to become obvious to you. After doing weekly 25% changes fora month you will have adjusted your tank water down to better parameters. At this point it will take your plants time to reprogram new leaves to optimize for these conditions…figure on 2-3 weeks. At that point you will want to be evaluating the new growth on the plants. Old leaves do not reprogram nearly as well to optimize for conditions…
Once you have good parameters and start seeing the plants respond well to them, keeping those water conditions stable is key to good healthy growth. Fluctuating conditions, be it GH, KH, fertilizers, lighting, co2 levels have the plants expending energy to alter the makeup of the leaves for new conditions… Energy spent toward this is not available for plant growth per se… An interesting example of this phenomenon is shown in a tool scientists are using to determine ambient co2 levels in periods of ancient history. Scientists can study fossil imprints of leaves under a microscope and can determine a rough estimate of the co2 levels the terrestrial leaf grew in by the density of stomata on the leaves. They corroborate this by comparing to same species being grown in greenhouses now with the ambient co2 levels being enriched at different levels to study the changes in the leaves…
Remember, any top offs of water should be distilled or reverse osmosis, not softened or bypass…. At my local grocery store they have a vending machine to allow you to buy water that has been filtered by reverse osmosis.. you can fill 5 gallon jugs in it. That may or may not be more convenient than gallon jugs.
so, a month to adjust the water, and another 2-3 weeks for the plants to adjust to new conditions, while keeping those new conditions stable, and thenyou should be able to perceive positive results. Another 6 weeks from then as old leaves have largely been replaced with new ones and good growth you should be seeing the full benefit from the change..
a big difficulty with growing plants is impatience. We make a change and do not see improvement within a week or two so we make another change,… then the plants need 2-3 weeks to alter themselves to the new changes… and we get frustrated that the change hasnt work so we figure we need to alter our fertilization schedule again etc….
learning that plants reprogram to optimize for new conditions and that this primarily happens in new growth and takes 2-3 weeks was a game changer for me…
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On 1/10/2024 at 4:14 PM, Rewcolee1 said:
This is a 75g aquarium. I use Flourish, Trace and occasionally Nitrogen. I dose per the instructions to adding a little more. I also use Easy Green root tabs per the instructions.
Is it only Java Fern that you have an issue with? I am confused about the mention of the root tabs…Do you have your Java fern placed in the substrate as opposed to glued or wegdedi to a rock crack or driftwood?
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On 1/10/2024 at 10:25 PM, J.C said:
I did take a peak at the aquarium co-op heaters those are pretty neat I really like the temps displayed digitally the only thing is the highest wattage that I saw unless I missed it was 100watts correct me if I’m wrong but wouldn’t I need at least a 300watt heater for a 75 gallon tank I know the 350’s only have 200 watt heaters installed but I’ll be running x2 of them
Heater requirement depends on a lot of variables. Temp of water desired, temp of room tank is in, lid or not, other electrical devices in and on tank.
I run a single 50 watt heater on my 29 gallon tanks in a 69- 70 degree room. I have 2 Finnex planted plus lights on top running at fairly high intensity for 9 hours a day and a Fluval 207 canister filter. I also keep a lid on my tank. The controller turns on the heater when temp drops to 74 degrees and turns it off when it reaches 76.
in this setup, 50 watts is completely adequate. But, you can always run 2 or even 3 heaters if needed.. There are advantages to running multiple heaters rather than a single. More even heat distribution in a tank. If one fails in off position and fails to heat you still have another 1 or 2 heaters preventing the tank from getting too cold. If one heaters stay stuck on, you are far less likely to cook your fish from overheating.
I intend to get a 75 gallon tank at some point in the future as well, and my plan is to try two 100 watt heaters and see if that is enough or if it needs more. As for filtration, I am thinking either 2 Fluval 407s with spray bars and inline co2, or a single FX4 with spray bar and inline co2. I can not personally see extending beyond monthly canister maintenance even if I was running an Oase with the removable prefilter as I swap out Purigen packets every month. I keep 2 packets per canister filter. I keep a clean recharged 1 in my fridge immersed in water in a plastic tub to replace the one coming out and recharge that one to prep for next month. I also put fresh polishing pads in every month and like to clean the impeller and impeller well once a month and the glass lily pipe inlet. I cant see myself going for a longer maintenance schedule on those other items so I would still be popping the Oase open every month. As such the removable prefilter feature has less utility to me.
I also agree there are many different practices and don’t imply that mine is the right way to do things. Just the right way for my tastes.
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On 1/10/2024 at 9:35 PM, J.C said:
Thus the reason I’m going with a cannister I originally was thinking of going hob’s just because of the pita cannisters can be to clean then my lfs mentioned the Oase with the ease of cleaning and the bonus of the integrated heater I knew this was the direction I wanted to go in.
I know canisters have a reputation for being miserable to clean..
I don’t get it myself. I had a seachem Tidal hob that I was not at all impressed with…. A filter isnt going to filter if the water bypasses the filtering media all of the time.. In my opinion it was a huge waste of money given the bypass issue.. and flow is concentrated in a single area..
I bit the bullet of the Canister filter when I installed co2 for better flow control and keeping the bubbles in suspension and distributed throughout the tank. The combination of canister, inline diffuser and spray bar works wonderfully on all counts for me.
as to cleaning it.. I have seen the videos where people dont clean their canister filter for 6 months.. yep. That looks unpleasant. The owners manual calls for every month. Takes me about 10 minutes doing it monthly…. There isnt all the gunk I see on waiting 6 months…. Iwould rather clean for 10 minutes every month than for an hour every six months myself.
The integral heater on the Oase would concern me on a few counts. The ease of damage to the glass heater in the powerhead when servicing it if you bump it, drop it etc, and being dependent on a single manufacturer for your heater to go with your canister…
One could go with an inline heater installed on a hose from the canister..
I personally like the Aquarium Co op heater myself controlled with an inkbird. Lights are off on heater except when heating. Coop thermostat acts as a backup shut off of heat if Inkbird were to fail in on position. The short squzt box of the co opheater allows me to place it low in the tank and not worry about exposing it during a 50% water change,…
I do like the prefilter on the Oase, but geesh, I spend 10 minutes a month servicing my Fluval…. At 10 minutes a month, how much time can you save?
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If money is not a limiting factor I would get all my flow from the canister filter and not wavemakers.
Simply put, wavemakers intrude in the tank more. They introduce more opportunity for current leakage into the tank, and I was continually having leaves and vegetative matter suck up to the grids and foul the impellers…. I was not a fan and removed them from my tanks…
I originally installed them to try to keep co2 bubbles from diffuser to stay in suspension longer…
I swapped out to an inline diffuser and a spray bar going from the back of the tank to the front locating the bar below water level.
with the inline diffuser and spray bar I notice the bubbles less as they get absorbed more before getting into the tank, and those that get injected in the tank stay in suspension well as water hits the front panel descends and goes along bottom and back up to top rear. I see a rotating current of mist bubbles…
I have a Fluval 207 on a 29 gallon so flow is well under the 10 xs rate, but it seems to hit all the checkmarks I care about. Plants all gently wave, plants are growing well, Algae under best control I have had …. I dont know what more flow could do for me than what I have now…. I know it would cost a lot more to set up and torun….
Cycling with and without quick start bacteria
in Experiments
Posted · Edited by Pepere
My first 29 gallon tank I used Fritz Fishless fuel ammonia for dosing, live plants added in and bottles upon bottles of various brands of bacteria in a bottle dosing and redosing twice a week..
Going from memory I used 3 bottles of Fritz zyme, 3 bottles of stability, quick start, 2 bottles dr tims and another brand I forget the name of. It took 2 months to get the tank to the point I could dose it with 2 ppm ammonia and get 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrites 24 hours after dosing.
I set up a quarantine tank in the basement with just a filter and heater and just dosed the ammonia. No plants, no mystery bottles of miracle bacteria, no cross contamination from other tank. It pretty much was cycled at the same time.
I set up a 20 high and added a mesh bag of Black Kow composted cow manure next to the filter intake and was cycled to same standard in 2 weeks…
not controlled testing by any means,but enough to convince me that I am never buying another bottle that claims to contain beneficial bacteria in it.
Those bottles can do nothing but save you some time at best, and do nothing worse than make your wallet lighter…
Gil Carlson, engineer at Bell and Gosset was fond of saying “A difference has to make a difference to be a worthwhile difference”. My playing with the stuff did not convince me it makes enough of a difference to spend money on it… And I really did want to believe in it….