High pH and very hard tap-water possibly killing my plants?

[BaRanchik]

Hey everyone.

To start with, I'll link my last post about my situation:

 

It's been a while and I have to say I'm getting more and more frustrated.
The only progress I see is the Anacharis is slowly coming back to life with new sprouts, as well as the red plant (pretty sure it's called Nymphaea Tiger) that's grew 3 new leaves. Everything else that starts growing new leaves just dies the next day. Shrimp are still alive and seem okay.

Dwarf Hairgrass made absolutely no progress, can't see roots under it as well.
Vallisneria keeps growing new leaves but they lose the color and die quickly after.
Hornwort can't recover (which is very weird because it seems to be doing fine in another bowl which has a betta in it).
Java moss is brownish, with VERY little new vibrant green.
Water Lettuce doesn't multiply anymore, lacks color and dies quickly.
Mystery snail died a few days after moving him there.
The tiny pond snail you can see attached to the floating airtube (in my old post) grew almost 3 times bigger, and mysteriously died today.
 

I went on and got different lighting (with more red and blue in it as suggested), moved the bowl to face a window (no direct sunlight is reaching it, but it's very bright during the day), bought a liquid fertilizer (can't get EasyGreen as I'm from Israel, so I got the one my LFS was selling, picture included), added an airstone which runs during the night, and lowered the temperature to 24C.

Tap water parameters (tested with test strips sold at the LFS):

pH - 7.8ish
Total Alkalinity - 160 mg/L
Nitrite - 0 mg/L
Free Chlorine - 0 mg/L
Total Chlorine - 0 mg/L
Hardness -  400 mg/L
Bromine - 0 mg/L

It's the same measurements inside the bowl, but the pH is slightly higher at around 8.2.
From what I read and understand, very hardy water is really bad for plants, but I can't really change my tap water.
I have no idea about what I should do next - nothing seems to really thrive in that environment, which is very frustrating.

 

[Solidus1833]

I've got pretty hard water and I dose Co2. PH is 7.6 I've never been able to get hornwort to grow it only dies. Ammania Gracilis (i think its called) always dies, and scarlet temple always dies. The only plants I've had much success with are crypts, anubias, val, and that (octopus) plant. My substrate is just sand and Seachem Flourite mix. 

You can control your ph. with Co2 injection and keep the ph. lower if that's what's causing the die-off.  A table like I've included below can give you what PH you need for around 30ppm co2. You need to know your KH and use the table to see what PH you need to drop to in order for 30ppm co2. Not sure if any of this helps, but it has worked for me. I start with ph7.6 and drop it to around 6.8 at the highest point for my lights. then by the time my lights turn off for the day my ph is around 7.0-7.2. By the time the co2 kicks back on in the early morning the ph doesnt rise past 7.2 and the cycle begins again. 

 

Not sure if any of this helps, but it can be another avenue. Do you need to dose macro-nutrients? Wouldn't hard water kind of have that already? 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Solidus1833
words

[BaRanchik]

25 minutes ago, Solidus1833 said:

I've got pretty hard water and I dose Co2. PH is 7.6 I've never been able to get hornwort to grow it only dies. Ammania Gracilis (i think its called) always dies, and scarlet temple always dies. The only plants I've had much success with are crypts, anubias, val, and that (octopus) plant. My substrate is just sand and Seachem Flourite mix. 

You can control your ph. with Co2 injection and keep the ph. lower if that's what's causing the die-off.  A table like I've included below can give you what PH you need for around 30ppm co2. You need to know your KH and use the table to see what PH you need to drop to in order for 30ppm co2. Not sure if any of this helps, but it has worked for me. I start with ph7.6 and drop it to around 6.8 at the highest point for my lights. then by the time my lights turn off for the day my ph is around 7.0-7.2. By the time the co2 kicks back on in the early morning the ph doesnt rise past 7.2 and the cycle begins again. 

 

Not sure if any of this helps, but it can be another avenue. Do you need to dose macro-nutrients? Wouldn't hard water kind of have that already? 

I'd really prefer avoiding CO2 dosing, especially since it's such a tiny tank and everything here costs 3 times as much, so you can imagine how much such a system would cost. Maybe I should try the plants you had suggested. I will definitely be trying more of them, since I'm doing a DIY project - building my own 10g betta tank.

The situation with the Hornwort is very confusing because I have it in 2 other nano tanks and it seems to be growing - with the same tap water and parameters, just different rooms (one of which doesn't even have tank lighting, and very little sunlight comes in). This is why I think something is terribly wrong with that specific bowl I'm talking about in the post.

Anyway, I'd love to hear more suggestions! 🙂

[Koi]

Hi @BaRanchik sorry to hear your experience isn't going as you'd like. To answer your main question, I don't think water hardness is your problem, neither ph. From what I understand somewhere around 90-95% of easily available aquatics plants can be grown in a wide range of hardness. I find that its very few plants that need more specific gh/kh values and they often tend to be harder to get anyways.

I read your other post but just wanted confirm that your setup is a fish bowl right?

I don't think lighting is your issue, since its a bowl I think almost any kind of light would be able to reach such a short distance. Even if it wasn't deep enough, you would still be able to see some growth. If I'm wrong please tell me but from what I gathered your tank is fairly new, 2-3 weeks by now right? It is too be expected that your plants will go through transitioning period where it needs to adapt to your water and your lights. I think you should know this to at least understand it will take some time till you see any progress but my main concern is your fertilizer.

Is that the only fertilizer you are using? From the looks of the bottle, it seems to be a micronutrient fertilizer. Unfortunately if that is all you are using you are half way there. You will have to find another fertilizer to go alongside with it because that bottle alone won't be enough. To keep it short fertilizers will be categorized as macronutrient or micronutrients. Your macro nutrients (the main nutrients plants need) will be broken down generally as NPK or nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium and your micronutrients (nutrients that are required at very minimal amounts) are generally different types of metals.

I assume you are expecting the dirt to be your main source of nutrients which is totally fine but you still need nutrients within your water column for your other plants. This could explain why your tiger lotus seems to be growing and others are not since its roots are reaching past your sand and feeding from the dirt. But for your other plants, nutrients need to be in the water. Seems like you have some nitrogen in your water (nitrates from fish) but without phosphorous and potassium, the plants won't be able to use it up. The fish food you use probably has some phosphate and potassium in it which could explain why your valisneria grows for a bit then dies because it has already used up all the nutrients from the food.

A good start is to see if you can find some kind of aquarium fertilizer wether its an all in one or just buy the macronutrients. I think buying a macronutrient fertilizer would be a better option since you already have a bottle of the micronutrients. I think you said you live in Israel so are Seachem products available to you? If so I think buying  the Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium bottles would be a really easy solution to get your macros. If they aren't you might have to resort to buying the chemical compounds. I know that compounds like potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate can be almost found universally and are much cheaper options but being that you have such a small tank, measuring those amounts can be rather difficult. For instance in a ten gallon tank you would need 1/64 of a teaspoon for an adequate amount of phosphate in your water. If it could be helped, try finding a macronutrient fertilizer sold for aquariums but I did give you at least 2 chemical compounds you could use if something like Seachem isn't available. Let me know if there is anything I missed, and hopefully we can figure out what is going on (if not me, there are plenty of smart individuals on this forum who might know something).

Edited March 10, 2021 by Koi

[BaRanchik]

24 minutes ago, Koi said:

Hi @BaRanchik sorry to hear your experience isn't going as you'd like. To answer your main question, I don't think water hardness is your problem, neither ph. From what I understand somewhere around 90-95% of easily available aquatics plants can be grown in a wide range of hardness. I find that its very few plants that need more specific gh/kh values and they often tend to be harder to get anyways.

I read your other post but just wanted confirm that your setup is a fish bowl right?

I don't think lighting is your issue, since its a bowl I think almost any kind of light would be able to reach such a short distance. Even if it wasn't deep enough, you would still be able to see some growth. If I'm wrong please tell me but from what I gathered your tank is fairly new, 2-3 weeks by now right? It is too be expected that your plants will go through transitioning period where it needs to adapt to your water and your lights. I think you should know this to at least understand it will take some time till you see any progress but my main concern is your fertilizer.

Is that the only fertilizer you are using? From the looks of the bottle, it seems to be a micronutrient fertilizer. Unfortunately if that is all you are using you are half way there. You will have to find another fertilizer to go alongside with it because that bottle alone won't be enough. To keep it short fertilizers will be categorized as macronutrient or micronutrients. Your macro nutrients (the main nutrients plants need) will be broken down generally as NPK or nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium and your micronutrients (nutrients that are required at very minimal amounts) are generally different types of metals.

I assume you are expecting the dirt to be your main source of nutrients which is totally fine but you still need nutrients within your water column for your other plants. This could explain why your tiger lotus seems to be growing and others are not since its roots are reaching past your sand and feeding from the dirt. But for your other plants, nutrients need to be in the water. Seems like you have some nitrogen in your water (nitrates from fish) but without phosphorous and potassium, the plants won't be able to use it up. The fish food you use probably has some phosphate and potassium in it which could explain why your valisneria grows for a bit then dies because it has already used up all the nutrients from the food.

A good start is to see if you can find some kind of aquarium fertilizer wether its an all in one or just buy the macronutrients. I think buying a macronutrient fertilizer would be a better option since you already have a bottle of the micronutrients. I think you said you live in Israel so are Seachem products available to you? If so I think buying  the Nitrogen, Phosphorous, and Potassium bottles would be a really easy solution to get your macros. If they aren't you might have to resort to buying the chemical compounds. I know that compounds like potassium nitrate and monopotassium phosphate can be almost found universally and are much cheaper options but being that you have such a small tank, measuring those amounts can be rather difficult. For instance in a ten gallon tank you would need 1/64 of a teaspoon for an adequate amount of phosphate in your water. If it could be helped, try finding a macronutrient fertilizer sold for aquariums but I did give you at least 2 chemical compounds you could use if something like Seachem isn't available. Let me know if there is anything I missed, and hopefully we can figure out what is going on (if not me, there are plenty of smart individuals on this forum who might know something).

The tank is now about 4-6 weeks old. Everything else is right!

I really wish I could get the Easy Green fert but the shipping is SO expensive through a third-party vendor.
I managed to find a store where I can get: seachem flourish potassium, seachem flourish excel, seachem flourish trace.
Other than the Potassium which you did mention, is any of those really beneficial?

I can get the others you mentioned from Amazon, so I'll be ordering those.

[Koi]

For now get nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium (NPK). Flourish trace is essentially micronutrients and since you already have bottle for that, you could skip getting that bottle . Flourish excel is an algaecide which could be useful but it might cause some problems for your valisneria and it's not necessary. Before buying the Seachem line, Nilocg has an all in one fertilizer as well but I'm not sure if that is available to you.

Trying looking around first and see whats available if you would prefer an all in one fert. I usually don't like telling people they have to buy specific products. Fertilizers are fertilizer no matter where it comes from as long as its aquarium safe. Look for something within your price range find something that works for you wether its an all in one with a pump head or the specific NPK bottles.

[BaRanchik]

1 hour ago, Koi said:

For now get nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium (NPK). Flourish trace is essentially micronutrients and since you already have bottle for that, you could skip getting that bottle . Flourish excel is an algaecide which could be useful but it might cause some problems for your valisneria and it's not necessary. Before buying the Seachem line, Nilocg has an all in one fertilizer as well but I'm not sure if that is available to you.

Trying looking around first and see whats available if you would prefer an all in one fert. I usually don't like telling people they have to buy specific products. Fertilizers are fertilizer no matter where it comes from as long as its aquarium safe. Look for something within your price range find something that works for you wether its an all in one with a pump head or the specific NPK bottles.

The only 2 brands I could find here are a very limited variety of Seachem products, and the brand of the fert I already own. So I'll be getting them soon. Hopefully that works and saves my plants. Thanks!

[Ken]

5 hours ago, BaRanchik said:

The tank is now about 4-6 weeks old.

4-6 weeks is minutes in aquarium plant time. Let them do their thing from another month or two. Get them the basic nutrients and wait it out. The more stuff you dump in the less you'll know about what worked and what didn't

[Brian]

Slow down, I am kinda new to planted aquariums.   Easy plants for maybe the last 4 or 5 years now.  
With that being said, I find plants do there best in a seasoned (not cycled) tank.  
I like to make changes slowly.   Keep your hands out of the water and let them settle in.   Give them the basic fertilizers and wait.   
Good Luck