Midnight ram breeding

[Snjchris]

Hi. We just noticed that the rams were laying eggs on the sponge filter. The eggs are translucent. We just got the rams from the Co-op on Jan 20th. Should they be laying eggs this young? Does it mean they are a pair? Should we turn off the filter so no fry (if any) gets sucked in? 

[Fish Folk]

Full moon tonight . . . call me superstitious, but it seems to affect things. Plus, new tank . . . they're in the mood. Congratulations! If you want to have success with raising ram fry, we've found it's best to pull the eggs. Most Rams eat their eggs. But that's a very involved process. If you want info on that, you can follow this thread on spawning rams:

 

[Snjchris]

Thank you for your response! I have read your post. It is quite an effort! We are quite new to this hobby so we were surprised to see the eggs. Still feel like they are babies having babies. 

[Fish Folk]

1 minute ago, Snjchris said:

Thank you for your response! I have read your post. It is quite an effort! We are quite new to this hobby so we were surprised to see the eggs. Still feel like they are babies having babies. 

They're old enough to spawn. Our Rams sometimes spawn as young as 3x months. These appear to be . . . maybe . . . 5-7 months? If Co-Op knows the breeder (e.g. Dean) maybe you can learn the approximate age. 

You could just turn the air down a bit on the sponge filter if it's really strong. If it were me, I'd be tearing that thing apart once they stop spawning, and putting the plastic right into a separate hatching container. But being that it's all new to you . . . just enjoy! Maybe they'll raise up a little brood for you. That would be a real sight to behold. 

[Snjchris]

3 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

They're old enough to spawn. Our Rams sometimes spawn as young as 3x months. These appear to be . . . maybe . . . 5-7 months? If Co-Op knows the breeder (e.g. Dean) maybe you can learn the approximate age. 

You could just turn the air down a bit on the sponge filter if it's really strong. If it were me, I'd be tearing that thing apart once they stop spawning, and putting the plastic right into a separate hatching container. But being that it's all new to you . . . just enjoy! Maybe they'll raise up a little brood for you. That would be a real sight to behold. 

Yea these are from Dean's line so we will definitely ask when we go in. I just can't stop staring at them in awe right now.

If they try to eat the eggs after they are done, I'll put the filter part in a breeder box. Keeping my fingers crossed! I am really hoping and looking forward to seeing some little fry swimming by their parents.

 

[Fish Folk]

You might consider leaving the light on over your tank tonight . . . or at least leaving enough ambient room light for them to see by. With angelfish, this keeps them vigilant and less likely to eat the eggs. It might work with your Rams too. Often, the sudden off / on of lights really shocks them. When cichlids are startled after having laid eggs, their native instinct is to sort of . . . reconstitute the protein by eating the eggs, and holding off to another time to spawn again.

[Snjchris]

1 minute ago, Fish Folk said:

You might consider leaving the light on over your tank tonight . . . or at least leaving enough ambient room light for them to see by. With angelfish, this keeps them vigilant and less likely to eat the eggs. It might work with your Rams too. Often, the sudden off / on of lights really shocks them. When cichlids are startled after having laid eggs, their native instinct is to sort of . . . reconstitute the protein by eating the eggs, and holding off to another time to spawn again.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond and sharing your knowledge! I really appreciate it! I'll keep the light on for them tonight and avoid doing anything to scare them in the tank. 

[Fish Folk]

Just don't be terribly disappointed if you find that they eat their eggs. For what it's worth . . . we've raised several hundred rams, and tried countless times to let them raise their own fry. It has _NEVER_ worked for us. We'd be SO thrilled to watch a proud Ram parent escort a cloud of fry around the tank. But after watching pair after pair eat their eggs for the 10th time, we love pulling the eggs and raising them successfully. 

You'll have to inquire . . . but I _think_ Dean might pull his eggs. But maybe he' figured out some secrets to getting them to be good parents. We will pick his brain next week -- he's going to Zoom chat with our fish club! 

[Snjchris]

9 minutes ago, Fish Folk said:

Just don't be terribly disappointed if you find that they eat their eggs. For what it's worth . . . we've raised several hundred rams, and tried countless times to let them raise their own fry. It has _NEVER_ worked for us. We'd be SO thrilled to watch a proud Ram parent escort a cloud of fry around the tank. But after watching pair after pair eat their eggs for the 10th time, we love pulling the eggs and raising them successfully. 

You'll have to inquire . . . but I _think_ Dean might pull his eggs. But maybe he' figured out some secrets to getting them to be good parents. We will pick his brain next week -- he's going to Zoom chat with our fish club! 

Yea I'm leaning more and more towards pulling the eggs out. The parents sometimes wonder off doing their own thing, leaving the eggs unguarded for other fish to come and have a snack.

[Fish Folk]

Ok. Do you have something to put them in? Do you have extra airline? An extra air stone?   

This is how we used to keep them earlier on when raising them:

 

[Snjchris]

Yes we do have extra air stone and tubing. Also have a breeder box we got from Co-op. I just finished your video. It is super helpful, especially the egg yolk tip! Thank you! 

[Fish Folk]

7 hours ago, Snjchris said:

especially the egg yolk tip

Just a caution . . . the egg yolk feeding is _really easy_ to OVERDO. We've definitely overfed it before, and lost fry. 

Best bet for you is probably going right over to the Co-Op and asking for advice. They're brilliant, and will walk you through things. What we do now is feed vinegar eels for about 3x days before offering them baby brine shrimp. Fry can be fed green water, infusoria, and supplemented by Sera Micron. 

First though, they need to work through their yolk sack. You've got some time. Biggest hurdle is working through fungus. That's what you use an air stone, and we also use 1/2 ml. per 1/2 gal (the Lee's Large Specimen Containers we use are 1/2 gallon.

This video is the most comprehensive single video we've made on raising Rams: