Unknown Issue Wiping Out My Tank

[ItsMeDario]

Hi All,

I apologize if I'm not well-versed but I am having difficulties with my 40-gallon tank. 

Image of my 40-gallon tank.

I started with 6 Hawaiian blue Moscow guppies and eventually had hundreds. They started in a 10-gallon tank and quickly outgrew it. I still have some from the original line in that tank and they're thriving. 

Image of my 10-gallon tank.

I started moving the babies (fry) to a 40-gallon where they live with a few amano shrimp, snails, a few panda corys, and a single zebra oto. Everything was going fine until it wasn't. I'm now losing about 5 guppies a day. They tend to get dark in color, the tail starts to drag, and they move less. Here are images of fish that are dealing with the issue as we speak. 

I have not lost any of the other variety living in the tank.

Here is how I maintain the tanks and my parameters. 

I do a weekly water change of about 5 gallons in my 40-gallon. I'm not sure if that's enough or too little. For context, I use RO water. Should I consider using standard tap water instead of RO water? 

I just used a test strip and had the following parameters.

Nitrate = 50

Nitrite = 0

Hardness = Between 25-75

Buffer = 80

pH = 6.8

Chlorine = 0

T.D.S. = 105 (I have not calibrated the device)

I saw white spots on some of the female fish a few weeks back and assumed they had ick and followed the instructions to medicate them. 

One final thing. The fish in my 10-gallon tank look glorious and are doing well. They don't deal with health issues and seem to be in good spirits. The ones in the 40-gallon tank are dying, look sickly, and have frayed tails. 

I'm honestly at a loss at this point. Does anyone have any advice, I'm willing to do anything to help them out. It breaks my heart to have to remove dead fish every single day. Please don't assume I'm not trying, I've tried many things and have had many sleepless nights. 

Not sure if this means anything but I've seen the shrimp and snails eating the dead fish if they get to them before I do. 

Please and thank you.

 

[Colu]

How you tested your ammonia level as black patches on the body can be a sign of ammonia poisoning. are you remineralizing your RO water. the white spots were they raised or flat and did they go away after treatment. Any rapid breathing hanging out near the surface lethargy flashing spitting food out sunken belly white stringy poop loss of appetite @ItsMeDario

[ItsMeDario]

I have not tested for ammonia. I have a large testing kit but it seemed complicated and purchased the co-op strips. I just tested for ammonia and it looks to be fine?

No, I did not know I had to remineralize the RO water. Do you think I should just use standard tap water that I dechlorinate? 

The white spots were raised and they went away for a while but from time to time I'll see them on a female guppy but it tends to go away. I did see one female guppy with the raised white bumps right now.

Sorry had a really hard time getting a picture of her.

I have not noticed any of the other issues you mentioned. 

Do you think that not remineralizing the water can be the cause? 

 

[Tony s]

On 8/1/2024 at 9:22 PM, ItsMeDario said:

Do you think that not remineralizing the water can be the cause?

At the very least, it will be a source of stress. Stressed fish easily get other diseases. Guppies and other live bearers like hard to very hard water. And fry may actually fall apart in the wrong water conditions. So. yes you need to remineralize. Crushed coral, wonder shell, or seachem equilibrium works well.

 

I use the equilibrium for my ro. The other choices are cheaper. Equilibrium is fast acting

Edited August 2 by Tony s

[ItsMeDario]

Thank you for all the information. I'm going to order some seachem equilibrium and pray that it helps. I'll keep y'all posted. 

[Colu]

It's possible it due to lack of minerals I would add some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties you might have to add one leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect use the equilibrium to remineralize your water that female looks like her scales are peeling what you described with raised white spots could be epistylis if you have more pictures of fish that the have these spots can you post them I would up the water changes to 50% once a week  looking at the amount of fish in that tank do regular testing @ItsMeDario

Edited August 2 by Colu

[Tony s]

On 8/2/2024 at 7:09 AM, Colu said:

that female looks like her scales are peeling what you described with raised white spots could be epistylis if you have more pictures of fish

@ItsMeDario it could easily be epistylis. I was just commenting on your mineral content. If it’s epistylis also, that’s a huge problem. Epistylis looks sort of like ich. Less uniform, raised white patches. Also covers the eyes. It’s deadly and contagious. And does really well in higher temperatures. @Colu has the best treatment plan for it.

[ItsMeDario]

On 8/2/2024 at 4:09 AM, Colu said:

It's possible it due to lack of minerals I would add some Indian almond leaves as they have antibacterial and antifungal properties you might have to add one leaf per gallon to get a beneficial effect use the equilibrium to remineralize your water that female looks like her scales are peeling what you described with raised white spots could be epistylis if you have more pictures of fish that the have these spots can you post them I would up the water changes to 50% once a week  looking at the amount of fish in that tank do regular testing @ItsMeDario

Just to confirm, I’d require 40 leafs for a 40-gallon tank? 
 

I will definitely do the 50% water change today and can add as many leafs as I have. I’ll have to order more since I only have 10 or so. 
 

I’ll try to get better pictures of this fish after my morning meetings. 

[Colu]

On 8/2/2024 at 5:29 PM, ItsMeDario said:

Just to confirm, I’d require 40 leafs for a 40-gallon tank? 
 

I will definitely do the 50% water change today and can add as many leafs as I have. I’ll have to order more since I only have 10 or so. 
 

I’ll try to get better pictures of this fish after my morning meetings. 

Yes 40 leaves for 40 gallon tank here's how you can tell if your dealing with epistylis that feeds off of gram negative bacteria on the slime coat of your fish and spreads more quickly at higher temperatures the most effective treatment is maracyn2 in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days and dose the tank with malachite green active ingredient in ick X 

Edited August 3 by Colu

[ItsMeDario]

On 8/2/2024 at 4:54 PM, Colu said:

Yes 40 leaves for 40 gallon tank here's how you can tell if your dealing with epistylis that feeds off of gram negative bacteria on the slime coat of your fish and spreads more quickly at higher temperatures the most effective treatment is maracyn2 in food feeding a small amount twice a day for 7 days and dose the tank with malachite green active ingredient in ick X 

Thank you, I'll order the seachems focus right now along with more almond leaves. 

[ItsMeDario]

Does it matter how large the almond leaves are if I use 40? The ones I have are pretty big.

[Colu]

On 8/3/2024 at 1:41 AM, ItsMeDario said:

Does it matter how large the almond leaves are if I use 40? The ones I have are pretty big.

You could get away with half the amount if  your using large almond leaves 

[ItsMeDario]

Excellent, I did a 50% water change with dechlorinated tap water and added all the large leaves I have (11). I ordered all the things you mentioned and will start treatment asap. Fingers crossed this works. 
 

I appreciate all the help the two of you have provided. I’ll keep you posted on the results   

[ItsMeDario]

Update 

I conducted a 50-60% water change last night with decholorinated tap water and added 11 large almond leaves. I have fritz maracyn around and decided to start treating them while I wait for the focus and garlic guard.

i woke up to 10 dead fish. 
 

Did a second dosing of treatment today with maracyn and food. Came back a couple hours later and found another batch of dead fish. Additionally, many of the fish are now turning white and laying on the gravel. I’m not sure if this is part of the treatment process or whether they’re all going to die. 
 

some of them seem to be seizing or moving awkwardly.

i apologize for the format or gramatical issues. I’m sending this from my phone in a panic.

 

[Colu]

ButIf  your seeing white patches or white lips on any fish  Could be columnaris that's a gram negative bacterial infections that spreads more quickly at higher temperatures and can kill in 24hr to 7 days depending on the strain the most effective treatment is a combination of kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs containing nitrofurazone following this treatment plan I would keep treating with maracyn as you have it to hand and add an extra air stone to increase the level's of dissolved oxygen that provent increase the efficacy of antibiotics  @ItsMeDario

[ItsMeDario]

Only a few of the female fish have the raised white scales. I looked carefully and could spot white lips. What I meant earlier is that they were losing color and turning white. I’m really at a loss and really dejected right now. One tanks was practically wiped out (10-gallon) after yesterday’s changes. The issue had been going on for quite some time but I believe I lost about 50 fish today and counting. My 40-gallon went from hundreds of fish to maybe 40 at this point. 
 

I did see that a couple of fish were wasting away. 
 

I think that they’re dealing with fin rot. But I’m not certain, their tales look to be extremely frayed.

I’ve seen raised white spots on the females. 
 

The males tend to turn black before dying.

i noticed that a few had enlarged gills today. 
 

Do you think that the change from RO (with mineralization) to tap water (decolonized) might have been too drastic of a change? Causing so many to die off at once?

out of sheer precaution, I started a treatment of paraclense and maracyn on my original 10-gallon. I’m really afraid of losing all my fish since I ordered them from red fish blue fish which is now out of business. 

Also, I’ve lowered the temp on all my tanks to 70 but it’s over 100 in California and I can get my tanks to go under 76 degrees. 

[Colu]

On 8/4/2024 at 2:07 AM, ItsMeDario said:

Only a few of the female fish have the raised white scales. I looked carefully and could spot white lips. What I meant earlier is that they were losing color and turning white. I’m really at a loss and really dejected right now. One tanks was practically wiped out (10-gallon) after yesterday’s changes. The issue had been going on for quite some time but I believe I lost about 50 fish today and counting. My 40-gallon went from hundreds of fish to maybe 40 at this point. 
 

I did see that a couple of fish were wasting away. 
 

I think that they’re dealing with fin rot. But I’m not certain, their tales look to be extremely frayed.

I’ve seen raised white spots on the females. 
 

The males tend to turn black before dying.

i noticed that a few had enlarged gills today. 
 

Do you think that the change from RO (with mineralization) to tap water (decolonized) might have been too drastic of a change? Causing so many to die off at once?

out of sheer precaution, I started a treatment of paraclense and maracyn on my original 10-gallon. I’m really afraid of losing all my fish since I ordered them from red fish blue fish which is now out of business. 

Also, I’ve lowered the temp on all my tanks to 70 but it’s over 100 in California and I can get my tanks to go under 76 degrees. 

It could be a factor causing stress leading to a secondary infection I would say your dealing with a fast acting bacterial infections that has caused mass mortality paracleanse wont have any effect on columnaris one of the active ingredient metronidazole does treat aeromonas a gram negative bacteria I would keep treating with maracyn and try and source kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs as soon as possible 

[ItsMeDario]

Ok, I’ll try to find those too right now. 

is it fine to treat with maracyn as instructed on the packaging or is the food method better? 

[Colu]

On 8/4/2024 at 2:47 AM, ItsMeDario said:

Ok, I’ll try to find those too right now. 

is it fine to treat with maracyn as instructed on the packaging or is the food method better? 

I would dose the tank with maracyn instead of  using it in food till you can get the medication I recommended 

[ItsMeDario]

I ordered the medication you recommended, they arrive today. 
 

 

[Colu]

On 8/4/2024 at 5:47 PM, ItsMeDario said:

I ordered the medication you recommended, they arrive today. 
 

 

I would do a water change and dose kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs as soon as they arrive following the treatment plan 

[ItsMeDario]

Will do. Is a 50% water change sufficient? 

[Colu]

On 8/5/2024 at 12:03 AM, ItsMeDario said:

Will do. Is a 50% water change sufficient? 

Yes that will be fine you could put some active carbon in for a couple of hours to remove any remaining medication 

[ItsMeDario]

I don’t have any active carbon since I’m running the aquarium coop sponge filters. 

[Colu]

On 8/5/2024 at 3:59 AM, ItsMeDario said:

I don’t have any active carbon since I’m running the aquarium coop sponge filters. 

If you don't have carbon the small amount of medication left shouldn't have a negative interaction with kanaplex and jungal fungus clear fizz tabs